VERDICT WATCH UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #24

[Alyce]

Would we hear what the note said?

Not right now, but probably after the verdict it will be reported what they asked.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Not right now, but probably after the verdict it will be reported what they asked.

Thank you!

 

[Newthoughts]

I agree that I don’t know how else the mental health could be discussed differently for Libby’s case, but it just feels it should have been.

Completely agree. Long story short; I suffered from depression whilst at Uni, and once told my dad I’d throw myself into the River Orwell during an argument...if any of the men that were ‘pesting’ me ever attacked me and threw me into that river then would a defending QC be all over my records and build a defence for a murderer based on something I was going through and said 20 years ago? It was the part of Libby’s personal struggle, that she was clearly working on coming through the other side of, that was used against her to excuse a vile man (that had already offended and terrified/ruined the lives of other women) that made my blood boil and write my first message on here.

20 years ago when my kids were little I worked for a college that did outreach in a local mental health resource centre. So I'd go there once a week to teach basic maths. One girl, who was very bright, just stopped coming so I went to her key social worker who told me she'd been raped at a party and was upset.

The key worker told me that he and her psychiatric nurse and the police all believed her. He also told me it had not a bat in hells chance of getting to court. Her health records and the fact she'd been seen with him meant it wasn't going to happen.

 

[Chambo1994]

When I say survival mode I am relying on an expert witness who has estimated her body temperature has dropped to 35 degrees and therefore she is hypothermic.

So her body will be focused on preventing further drops in temperature. Human beings function within a very narrow range of a lot of things like body temp and work very hard to remain within that range.

When she left the taxi she was already very drunk. But it is unlikely she had spent enough time in the cold at that point for a significant drop in body temp. So it would be easier to walk along pavements

When PR picks her up the expert has stated he believes she is now hypothermic with a body temp of 35. Her body will have been working flat out to preserve it - breaking down glycogen, shivering, diverting its resources to that

The park is not a flat pavement.

So you're not really comparing like with like.

Can you send me the link to the part when the expert witness said she was in survival mode please? and the reference to drops in glycogen and diverting resources? I didn’t see that so would be interested to re read it if I’ve missed it.

 

[HLC35]

20 years ago when my kids were little I worked for a college that did outreach in a local mental health resource centre. So I'd go there once a week to teach basic maths. One girl, who was very bright, just stopped coming so I went to her key social worker who told me she'd been raped at a party and was upset.

The key worker told me that he and her psychiatric nurse and the police all believed her. He also told me it had not a bat in hells chance of getting to court. Her health records and the fact she'd been seen with him meant it wasn't going to happen.

That’s just awful. System absolutely has to change. Somehow. Not sure how. Jmo

 

[LastSeenWearing]

20 years ago when my kids were little I worked for a college that did outreach in a local mental health resource centre. So I'd go there once a week to teach basic maths. One girl, who was very bright, just stopped coming so I went to her key social worker who told me she'd been raped at a party and was upset.

The key worker told me that he and her psychiatric nurse and the police all believed her. He also told me it had not a bat in hells chance of getting to court. Her health records and the fact she'd been seen with him meant it wasn't going to happen.

No wonder so many people are still afraid to access mental health services if it can still be held against a person in this way. Let's hope there has been some progress in 20 years though I doubt it.

 

[Newthoughts]

Bbm

I see you repeting this like the river not being tidal. With all respect two locals said they didn't have issue with the timing in response to me saying many indeed did.
There were a lot of locals before who said they did have issues and perhaps 1 or 2 since have also said they do, so that definitely seems a matter of opinion.
Moo

Well then we're split aren't we. I must admit I don't understand the issue. 700 metres is not that far.


If you believe the timing is tight what do you think PR was doing for between 6.5 and 7 minutes outside the park before he left Libby?

What did the defence say about the timing?

 

[Newthoughts]

If you watch the CCTV she almost did

Not deliberately tho

 

[Newthoughts]

Can you send me the link to the part when the expert witness said she was in survival mode please? and the reference to drops in glycogen and diverting resources? I didn’t see that so would be interested to re read it if I’ve missed it.

He outlined what state she would be in from the jury. He estimated her body temp at 35. He said she would be tired, uncoordinated etc. He estimated how long he thought she'd be like that.

The rest I'm afraid is from having to teach thermoregulation and homeostatis. I'd be really grateful for your corrections on that. So I will add in my opinion her body would be trying to survive.

 

[JosieJo]

They are taking longer than I expected

 

[Tortoise]

No news, just confirming they are back to deliberations -

Sheffield Crown Court 1 T20207204
Pawel Piotr Relowicz
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Jury retire to consider verdict - 10:35
Trial (Part Heard) - Jury retire to consider verdict - 13:07

https://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Sheffield-Crown-Court.php

 

[Steve2021]

I honestly think the suicide theory is going to go down like a ton of bricks with the jury and make them less likely to acquit rather than more. They are being asked to consider as reasonably possible that PR leaves Libby in the road and she decides to find a river and jump in. In my opinion it's absolutely bonkers and look's a bit desperate. I don't have a problem with them raising it but I think going into overkill on it was a mistake. I'm baffled why the defence banged on about it for so long instead of spending much more time promoting their much better misadventure argument and generally casting doubt on all the other issues like timings, the screams, the mystery man in the park etc.

If their plan was to hint a wink to the jury that PR may well have left her distressed not in the road but rather more proximate to the river, I might agree suicide wasnt impossible. But as the defendant's evidence is the total opposite of that they are asking a lot from me to even be willing to go down that route. And if I thought thats what they were doing and PR was lying I'd probably infer he was trying to hide something, ask myself what that might be, and the obvious answer would be he'd killed her.

 

[Jarvis1969]

Interesting read. Judge describes him as a very dangerous individual!

Man jailed for spying on young women having sex and walking around homes in underwear

 

[Newthoughts]

I honestly think the suicide theory is going to go down like a ton of bricks with the jury and make them less likely to acquit rather than more. They are being asked to consider as reasonably possible that PR leaves Libby in the road and she decides to find a river and jump in. In my opinion it's absolutely bonkers and look's a bit desperate. I don't have a problem with them raising it but I think going into overkill on it was a mistake. I'm baffled why the defence banged on about it for so long instead of spending much more time promoting their much better misadventure argument and generally casting doubt on all the other issues like timings, the screams, the mystery man in the park etc.

If their plan was to hint a wink to the jury that PR may well have left her distressed not in the road but rather more proximate to the river, I might agree suicide wasnt impossible. But as the defendant's evidence is the total opposite of that they are asking a lot from me to even be willing to go down that route. And if I thought thats what they were doing and PR was lying I'd probably infer he was trying to hide something, ask myself what that might be, and the obvious answer would be he'd killed her.

I've a horrible feeling the mental health stuff was also a nod to the rape charge as in this girl is crazy who knows what she'd consent to.

 

[Scorpiette]

Interesting read. Judge describes him as a very dangerous individual!

Man jailed for spying on young women having sex and walking around homes in underwear

Interesting article. Particularly the part where it says PR was given 'an indefinite Sexual Harm Prevention Order'. I'm going to Google what that is, now.

 

[Newthoughts]

Interesting read. Judge describes him as a very dangerous individual!

Man jailed for spying on young women having sex and walking around homes in underwear

Yes he did. I'm not sure the jury would have been told that bit tho. Even tho it is as relevant as Libby's mental health

 

[Hoggle]

If one believes he is guilty of the rape charge, and I personally believe he is, I have always thought it odd that he would return to the site if she was left alive. Who would do that? The risk of police being there, or others now assisting her and looking for him. Just seems bizarre.

 

[Jarvis1969]

Interesting article. Particularly the part where it says PR was given 'an indefinite Sexual Harm Prevention Order'. I'm going to Google what that is, now.

A Sexual Harm Prevention Order (SHPO), previously known as a Sexual Offence Prevention Order (SOPO), is a court order that can be requested by the police or the court when there is a specific concern about an individual.

 

[Scorpiette]

Interesting article. Particularly the part where it says PR was given 'an indefinite Sexual Harm Prevention Order'. I'm going to Google what that is, now.

What is a Sexual Harm Prevention Order (SHPO) | Wells Burcombe LLPSO,...if PR is found guilty of rape, breaching his SHPO can carry up to a maximum sentence of 5 years for this breach alone?

 

[Steve2021]

Now we've got down to the wire and seen the arguments put forward by both counsel, half of me thinks the prosecution knew at the outset it was pretty unlikely the jury would convict, but the other half thinks by the end the defence either knew there was no chance of a conviction or thought their own case was hopeless. There were no knock out blows along the way, little if anything came out they didn't know at the beginning, and the closing speeches were a bit lacklustre.