VERDICT WATCH UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #24

[Jarvis1969]

What is a Sexual Harm Prevention Order (SHPO) | Wells Burcombe LLPSO,...if PR is found guilty of rape, breaching his SHPO can carry up to a maximum sentence of 5 years for this breach alone?

Reading this explanation I really think that he is more than capable of rape and murder, his crimes were escalating

 

[Sally4x]

If one believes he is guilty of the rape charge, and I personally believe he is, I have always thought it odd that he would return to the site if she was left alive. Who would do that? The risk of police being there, or others now assisting her and looking for him. Just seems bizarre.

Because he knew she was dead?

 

[Edinlass]

On tenterhooks here.

Justice for Libby. <3

 

[bos]

He outlined what state she would be in from the jury. He estimated her body temp at 35. He said she would be tired, uncoordinated etc. He estimated how long he thought she'd be like that.

The rest I'm afraid is from having to teach thermoregulation and homeostatis. I'd be really grateful for your corrections on that. So I will add in my opinion her body would be trying to survive.

I hope Professor Deakin did provide some lay physiology on how the body tries to maintain homeostasis within narrow parameters.

The brain requiring a constant supply of glucose/effects of muscular depletion of glucose stores(glycogen)/alcohol causing heat loss via vasodilation v vasoconstriction of vessels normally preserving core temp.

From other comments I’ve seen about fear perhaps partially sobering Libby up and attempting to run, I really think “poor co ordination” reported as Deakin’s evidence doesn’t convey how function is compromised as the body Prioritises preserving things we don’t consciously control.

Perhaps the closest thing more people might be able to relate to is a marathon runner who hits “the wall” within sight of the finish line & staggers before falling with insufficient energy to get back on his feet.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Well then we're split aren't we. I must admit I don't understand the issue. 700 metres is not that far.


If you believe the timing is tight what do you think PR was doing for between 6.5 and 7 minutes outside the park before he left Libby?

What did the defence say about the timing?

I don't think we got to really hear much of what the defence said, the Judge did nod to it. Along the lines of he disputes due to geography and distance but again its not a discussion that was seemingly reported.

I'm not sure, what the time was spent doing we have no information on that. I'm not saying it doesn't seem sketchy either way (timings wise). I also don't automatically believe PR, much of what he said is clearly lies so I disregard what he said and his evidence completely. Perhaps they did enter ORPF for him to rape her?
My understanding is i don't have to believe PRs testimony because he doesn't have to prove anything, its on the prosecution to do so, so even completely disregarding anything he has said and thinking it give us no further info as to events that night that doesn't mean I have to think he's guilty? There COULD be many reasons that he lied. I absolutely accept one of those reasons been that he is indeed guilty. I don't know, I just don't think its proven, for me personally. Hopefully the jury have seen enough to think otherwise.

 

[Skigh]

What is a Sexual Harm Prevention Order (SHPO) | Wells Burcombe LLPSO,...if PR is found guilty of rape, breaching his SHPO can carry up to a maximum sentence of 5 years for this breach alone?

He did not breach it as he was given it after he was charged for raping Libby.

 

[Hoggle]

Because he knew she was dead?

Well yes. The only other workable explanation in my head is that it wasn't a violent rape but him taking advantage of her in a practically comatose state and then feeling guilty and going back to see if she's ok but given it was two hours later, basic common sense and his history it seems such an implausible explanation that I can only presume that he did kill her. MOO

 

[Jarvis1969]

He did not breach it as he was given it after he raped Libby.

But he hasnt been convicted of rape yet?

 

[Scorpiette]

He did not breach it as he was given it after he raped Libby.

Ah,yes. Good point.
Since the SHPO was awarded for crimes prior to Libby, can it count retrospectively I wonder?

 

[Ktboo]

I believe the jury are deliberation until 4pm. Wonder if we will get a verdict today. Personally, I think it’s more likely early next week.

 

[Skigh]

But he hasnt been convicted of rape yet?

I have edited my post.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I believe the jury are deliberation until 4pm. Wonder if we will get a verdict today. Personally, I think it’s more likely early next week.

I don't think it will be today, particularly as a Friday it gives another two valuable days for contemplation.

 

[JosieJo]

Still keeping fingers crossed the question may have helped them to decide today

 

[Edinlass]

Still keeping fingers crossed the question may have helped them to decide today

Could the question have been if they were allowed to add the manslaughter charge? Sorry if this has been discussed or it isn’t the case. Just wondering.

 

[Offaly]

They are taking longer than I expected

Hopefully that's because they're going for the murder verdict.

 

[Gers76]

Could the question have been if they were allowed to add the manslaughter charge? Sorry if this has been discussed or it isn’t the case. Just wondering.

They requested evidence to be re
read according to the reported on Twitter

 

[Ktboo]

They requested evidence to be re
read according to the reported on Twitter

Curious to know what evidence as that could give an indication of which way they’re swaying

 

[Blondiexoxo]

PR ‘didn’t want to admit that he had cheated on his wife’, yet he’d been an active sexual deviant for god knows how many years. He says it like he thinks it’s fine to break into peoples homes and steal their underwear, masturbate in public while staring at women in broad daylight but draws the line at his wife thinking he’s a cheat? He didn’t care about her when he was doing these disgusting things or when he was raping and murdering Libby. He didn’t worry about being found out because he was so blatant and unashamed of his previous crimes.

He had simmered at this level of voyeurism for so long, it was almost inevitable he was going to progress to a physical attack at some point. The defense have used his long history of not committing violent crime as proof that he didn’t have intentions to harm. Whereas to me, the fact he had been actively stalking and being vulgar for so long solidifies even more that he was capable of rape and murder. People like PR do progress, it may take years but when presented with what I’m sure PR considered an ‘opportunity’ in Libby, he felt he had no bounds because she was inebriated, already distressed, anyone would think he was just trying to take her home as he’s already claimed. However, we know that he did not take Libby home.

He likely attempted to sexually assault her in the car which caused her to get out and run, but he caught up and continued the assault, muffling her screams and cries for help she manages to scratch him which sends him into a rage and he kills her and runs off. Later returning to check she hasn’t already been found and dumping her in the water. He thought his luck was in, easy victim too drunk to defend herself, just what he’d been searching for. He admits he was looking for a ‘woman for sex’ which more than likely meant ‘a woman to rape’ too.

 

[JosieJo]

Hopefully that's because they're going for the murder verdict.

It seems that way ... I can't imagine them struggling with manslaughter

 

[Newthoughts]

I don't think we got to really hear much of what the defence said, the Judge did nod to it. Along the lines of he disputes due to geography and distance but again its not a discussion that was seemingly reported.

I'm not sure, what the time was spent doing we have no information on that. I'm not saying it doesn't seem sketchy either way (timings wise). I also don't automatically believe PR, much of what he said is clearly lies so I disregard what he said and his evidence completely. Perhaps they did enter ORPF for him to rape her?
My understanding is i don't have to believe PRs testimony because he doesn't have to prove anything, its on the prosecution to do so, so even completely disregarding anything he has said and thinking it give us no further info as to events that night that doesn't mean I have to think he's guilty? There COULD be many reasons that he lied. I absolutely accept one of those reasons been that he is indeed guilty. I don't know, I just don't think its proven, for me personally. Hopefully the jury have seen enough to think otherwise.

For me I have to look at everything. I agree that I don't have your issues with timing because 700 metres is not far and I've seen young lads carrying their girlfriends.

And we both have to agree that our issues with timing are not universally accepted by locals.

But I feel like you that I have to consider all the evidence and for me I have to consider any doubts either way.

If I consider him being not guilty then the only starting point I have is what he said. Which leaves him outside the park for a period of time. Without any suspicious noises from that area.

So I therefore I personally have to come up with something to explain that time. And I really can't. I think that's quite important cos it's a big chunk of time and if he's not guilty it has to be explained IMO. For Libby's sake.


So the alternative is that he is lying about not entering the park.

So if he is lying about that I feel I have to consider why he'd do that. Especially as it's something that increases the chances of Libby falling in herself. That would be enough for me to to say I now have a doubt about his guilt. I don't think Libby can make it to the river from outside the park without succumbing to hypothermia on the way. So inside would introduce doubt.

So I have to ask myself why lie about that? There is no reason to rape her outside the park.

The only explanation I can reach for that lie is he killed her and put her in the water. I cannot reach any other logical reason to lie.

But again that is in conjunction with every other piece of evidence.

But I think it is important to reasonably account for that time if he's not killed Libby