GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

[Newthoughts]

According to this there were hundreds of students searching for Libby on Saturday the 2nd of February.
Coastguard helping in search for missing student

"On Saturday, around 200 students were out looking for Miss Squire, who was reported missing after getting into a taxi outside the Welly Club on Beverley Road, Hull, at around 11pm on Thursday."

So the student community knew a fellow student was missing much earlier than you suggest.

And with regards to the time:

"Mr B's partner HD has been called to the witness box.

She says it was at around 12.30am that she last checked her phone on February 1.

Miss D said she heard a “high-pitched female scream”....

Miss D Durkin said she decided to call the police after seeing reports that Libby had gone missing after being dropped off at Wellesley Avenue"

And

"Mr B says it was around 12.30am that he heard the scream. He says he checked the time."


Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

Yes the student community knew very early on.

My child told me about it on the evening of the 1st and joined the search on the Saturday. She didn't know Libby or any of her friends because she was doing a completely different degree and was a final year but the police were searching around the uni and student houses. I remember being really worried because a few days before she'd told me that her friends had had personal items stolen a few days and that they'd had a feeling they'd been being watched beforehand.

 

[Newthoughts]

DBM

 

[Ruthbullock]

According to this there were hundreds of students searching for Libby on Saturday the 2nd of February.
Coastguard helping in search for missing student

"On Saturday, around 200 students were out looking for Miss Squire, who was reported missing after getting into a taxi outside the Welly Club on Beverley Road, Hull, at around 11pm on Thursday."

So the student community knew a fellow student was missing much earlier than you suggest.

And with regards to the time:

"Mr B's partner HD has been called to the witness box.

She says it was at around 12.30am that she last checked her phone on February 1.

Miss D said she heard a “high-pitched female scream”....

Miss D said she decided to call the police after seeing reports that Libby had gone missing after being dropped off at Wellesley Avenue"

And

"Mr B says it was around 12.30am that he heard the scream. He says he checked the time."


Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

It wasn’t my suggestion, it was my closest friends daughters experience of it, which I posted about way back in thread one. Whilst 200 students may seem a lot, it’s not compared to the volume of students in Hull, that’s likely her course (who had been expecting her in a lecture) and her housemates fellow students as well, who will have mentioned it to their friends

 

[ChiCubs2016]

This may or may not help...
He said it was his partner, HD, who checked what time it was.

Ms D also gave evidence and told the court they had gone to bed around 11.30 pm and were “chatting” in bed.
She last checked her phone, she said, at 12.30am.

“Out of nowhere I heard a high-pitched female scream,” she told the court.

“When I heard the first noise I told D to be quiet so I could listen further.
Man heard screams of 'fright' from field where student was allegedly murdered
Lots more direct quotes in the article to provide context, edited by me to change names to initials

Thank you! I definitely missed this!!

edit to change defiantly to definitely because that makes a big difference it what I was saying!

 

[C.greek]

The statement from the defence was his car wasn’t parked there during the time the witness said it was, it was around the corner unless it evaded CCTV (which it was said there was no way of doing by a Police witness.) As it wasn’t brought up in closing statements, I think his witness statement was disregarded.

Sorry for going back there, but having reread what snippets we are given of the trial statements, I noticed that the prosecution did not discard at all the witness testimony about PR cleaning his car:

"“And that’s why, Mr Relowicz, you didn’t have a phone with you that night so you couldn’t be tracked. That’s why you changed your trousers and made sure they were washed, and made sure you had a bath. Is that why you were seen cleaning your car Mr Relowicz?”

Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

So it wouldn't surprise me if it was mentioned in the closing statement and was just not reported.

 

[Sooty]

SA said the screams sounded like ‘desperation’ - a state of despair.

HD said the screams were ‘urgent’. - requiring immediate attention.

They could both have been Libby 10 minutes apart .

There could easily be reasons why both sets of witnesses didn’t hear both sets of screams in the middle of the night. Sam could have gone back to sleep, the couple were having a conversation etc

MOO

 

[C.greek]

It wasn’t my suggestion, it was my closest friends daughters experience of it, which I posted about way back in thread one. Whilst 200 students may seem a lot, it’s not compared to the volume of students in Hull, that’s likely her course (who had been expecting her in a lecture) and her housemates fellow students as well, who will have mentioned it to their friends

But also HD the witness says that the reason she contacted police was because of reports of a girl missing. (In the above quote I had)

 

[Ruthbullock]

Thank you! I defiantly missed this!!

I hadn’t seen the article either before today, and it’s not taken from Hull live as to many new facts in it.

 

[C.greek]

For those who have preferred their timings to SA I submit what they've said here isn't terribly convincing either.

Interestingly though the screams they heard lasted just 45-70 seconds. SA said 3-7 minutes. That is one hell of a discrepancy.

Should we discount both them and SAs timings and simply take it that a woman screamed and a man was shortly after seen exiting the park at a fast and determined walk?

Snipped for focus. This is what I have done ever since I read about their evidence. Disregarded their timings and stuck to the common themes and the man seen exiting the park.

 

[Dotta]

Sorry for going back there, but having reread what snippets we are given of the trial statements, I noticed that the prosecution did not discard at all the witness testimony about PR cleaning his car:

"“And that’s why, Mr Relowicz, you didn’t have a phone with you that night so you couldn’t be tracked. That’s why you changed your trousers and made sure they were washed, and made sure you had a bath. Is that why you were seen cleaning your car Mr Relowicz?”

Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

So it wouldn't surprise me if it was mentioned in the closing statement and was just not reported.

To believe or not to believe - that is the Question!

 

[Ruthbullock]

Sorry for going back there, but having reread what snippets we are given of the trial statements, I noticed that the prosecution did not discard at all the witness testimony about PR cleaning his car:

"“And that’s why, Mr Relowicz, you didn’t have a phone with you that night so you couldn’t be tracked. That’s why you changed your trousers and made sure they were washed, and made sure you had a bath. Is that why you were seen cleaning your car Mr Relowicz?”

Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

So it wouldn't surprise me if it was mentioned in the closing statement and was just not reported.

There is honestly the defence questioning him afterwards and put it to the neighbour that the CCTV showed his car hadn’t even entered the street again over night and implied it was parked elsewhere- can’t find it for love nor money tonight, no I have looked - it just pulls up the websleuth comments on google (and even then I can’t find exactly the bit I want to quote). I will keep looking, someone did mention it earlier tonight and linked and article - but it’s still not quite the right quote.
ETA: I’m fairly sure it was just a read out statement from the neighbour and it was the policeman who had reviewed CCTV who was quoted by defence to the prosecution (but no actual people were questioned)

 

[Sooty]

It doesn’t appear that SA believed (at the time) that he had been witness to a murder.

 

[C.greek]

There is honestly the defence questioning him afterwards and put it to the neighbour that the CCTV showed his car hadn’t even entered the street again over night and implied it was parked elsewhere- can’t find it for love nor money tonight, no I have looked - it just pulls up the websleuth comments on google (and even then I can’t find exactly the bit I want to quote). I will keep looking, someone did mention it earlier tonight and linked and article - but it’s still not quite the right quote.
ETA: I’m fairly sure it was just a read out statement from the neighbour and it was the policeman who had reviewed CCTV who was quoted by defence to the prosecution (but no actual people were questioned)

Haha, no worries. But how does it work here? I thought the witness is cross-examined immediately after the prosecution or the defence. The statement/question of the prosecution i quoted was made much later when PR was cross-examined. Surely if this statement had appeared the defence would have immediately reacted upon it?! (Do i make sense?)

 

[tedtink]

There is honestly the defence questioning him afterwards and put it to the neighbour that the CCTV showed his car hadn’t even entered the street again over night and implied it was parked elsewhere- can’t find it for love nor money tonight, no I have looked - it just pulls up the websleuth comments on google (and even then I can’t find exactly the bit I want to quote). I will keep looking, someone did mention it earlier tonight and linked and article - but it’s still not quite the right quote.
ETA: I’m fairly sure it was just a read out statement from the neighbour and it was the policeman who had reviewed CCTV who was quoted by defence to the prosecution (but no actual people were questioned)

Found this.........

Defence barrister questioning Relowicz's neighbour
Neighbour Mr Thornton is being questioned by Oliver Saxby QC, mitigating, who says he wants to “clarify a few things.”

Mr Saxby has asked Mr Thornton to clarify if he recognises the man as the man who lives at number 24 as in his police statement he said he “assumed” the man who was cleaning his car lived at number 24.

Mr Thornton said: “No, I recognised him as the man who was arrested on the 6th and that’s when I called the police and told them.”

Mr Saxby has asked: “Have you put two and two together and come up with five? You say about the date, I accept that but my question is that so far as saying it was him cleaning his car do you think you might have that wrong?”

Mr Thornton has said: “No.

Libby Squire trial live: Updates from court

ETA.....
Those who are innocent lie 'due to a childish fear they will not be believed', defence says
Mr Saxby is now talking about Mr Thornton, who says he saw Relowicz cleaning his car.

He said: “When he is convinced he saw the man from 24 cleaning his car, Pawel Relowicz’s car, we know was around the corner - we know that from the CCTV.

“That is an example of a theory that he killed Libby Squire and is supported by a set of theories that Sam Alford saw him getting into his car, and that he asphyxiated Libby - even though it couldn’t be proved how she was killed.

“The theory that Mr Thornton saw him cleaning his car can not stand up because his car was not there.

“What this case revolves around is not his bad character or the lies he has told about his past convictions, his problem.

“No doubt those who are guilty lie, but so do those who are innocent due to a childish fear that they will not be believed.”

Pawel Relowicz is giving his account of what happened to Libby - updates

 

[Ruthbullock]

Haha, no worries. But how does it work here? I thought the witness is cross-examined immediately after the prosecution or the defence. The statement/question of the prosecution i quoted was made much later when PR was cross-examined. Surely if this statement had appeared the defence would have immediately reacted upon it?! (Do i make sense?)

You do make sense and I can only put it down to the way it was reported

 

[tedtink]

There is honestly the defence questioning him afterwards and put it to the neighbour that the CCTV showed his car hadn’t even entered the street again over night and implied it was parked elsewhere- can’t find it for love nor money tonight, no I have looked - it just pulls up the websleuth comments on google (and even then I can’t find exactly the bit I want to quote). I will keep looking, someone did mention it earlier tonight and linked and article - but it’s still not quite the right quote.
ETA: I’m fairly sure it was just a read out statement from the neighbour and it was the policeman who had reviewed CCTV who was quoted by defence to the prosecution (but no actual people were questioned)

Yes I've added to my post above to include Saxby's summing up which mentions the CCTV.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Yes I've included in my post above to include Saxby's summing up which mentions the CCTV.

Thank you so much, I was trailing through past threads trying to find it

 

[tedtink]

Thank you so much, I was trailing through past threads trying to find it

My pleasure

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Found this.........

Defence barrister questioning Relowicz's neighbour
Neighbour Mr Thornton is being questioned by Oliver Saxby QC, mitigating, who says he wants to “clarify a few things.”

Mr Saxby has asked Mr Thornton to clarify if he recognises the man as the man who lives at number 24 as in his police statement he said he “assumed” the man who was cleaning his car lived at number 24.

Mr Thornton said: “No, I recognised him as the man who was arrested on the 6th and that’s when I called the police and told them.”

Mr Saxby has asked: “Have you put two and two together and come up with five? You say about the date, I accept that but my question is that so far as saying it was him cleaning his car do you think you might have that wrong?”

Mr Thornton has said: “No.

Libby Squire trial live: Updates from court

ETA.....
Those who are innocent lie 'due to a childish fear they will not be believed', defence says
Mr Saxby is now talking about Mr Thornton, who says he saw Relowicz cleaning his car.

He said: “When he is convinced he saw the man from 24 cleaning his car, Pawel Relowicz’s car, we know was around the corner - we know that from the CCTV.

“That is an example of a theory that he killed Libby Squire and is supported by a set of theories that Sam Alford saw him getting into his car, and that he asphyxiated Libby - even though it couldn’t be proved how she was killed.

“The theory that Mr Thornton saw him cleaning his car can not stand up because his car was not there.

“What this case revolves around is not his bad character or the lies he has told about his past convictions, his problem.

“No doubt those who are guilty lie, but so do those who are innocent due to a childish fear that they will not be believed.”

Pawel Relowicz is giving his account of what happened to Libby - updates

Thanks Ted.

Gobbledygook from the defence, no doubt deliberate to confuse the jury and distract away from the fact PR was washing his car.

 

[JosieJo]

Hi. Have been reading some of the posts on here because I live in Hull when I'm not at uni. I'd just like to say I know the park well. I walk the dog there. I don't have any issues with the timing at all. No issues with the 7.5 minutes and none with the 4.5 minutes. There isn't a reason for anyone to be in the park at that time of night in the middle of winter. How many rape victims conveniently fall in rivers?

How many rape victims are left right by a river in the dark? and who are extremely vulnerable and are struggling with walking etc?