GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

[tedtink]

Yes iirc her dad (step dad?) was top suspect at first due to his interest in BDSM... because all kinksters are murderers, right?!

It's called 'clearing the ground beneath your feet'.
Those types of cases LE always look at parents first.

 

[Sooty]

My apologies, I should have asked do you think he has some sort of disorder that would make him believe this is not wrong? I only ask because for me it is unfathomable that anyone would think doing this stuff was okay. This is a serious question. No disrespect.

I don’t know I’m afraid, I am not qualified to make that assessment.

 

[Lucy6226]

It's called 'clearing the ground beneath your feet'.
Those types of cases LE always look at parents first.

Yes of course. But in this case the police actually apologised to the family later done the line because whilst they were investigating the dad, who had an alibi, there were missed opportunities to catch/link it to Bellfield.

 

[Niner]

This is what I’m talking about it’s 11am
They’ve probably only just sat down to get started and they’ll be sent for lunch soon. I really feel for Libby’s family. I hope the judge gives them longer, fingers crossed they reach a verdict today.

But this one says they started at 10:35am posted by jamjim on #494.

Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Jury retire to consider verdict - 10:35
Sheffield Crown Court 1 T20207204

I believe the time you are seeing as 11am is the time it was posted on here. That's the start time I'm going with that was in the post 494.

 

[tigerowl]

13:54
Jury asks another question

Justice Lambert has been spending lunch mulling over a query from the jury and is due to address them shortly.

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury starts fifth day of talks

Does anyone know if this address/response will be public or if it is part of the deliberation behind closed doors?

Thanks you @jamjim for all your very timely updates on this thread. Much appreciated.

 

[jamjim]

14:10
Judge reminding jury of pathologist's evidence

The jury asked for a reminder of the evidence of pathologist Dr Matthew Lyall.

In addressing the jury just after lunch, Justice Lambert said: "Dr Lyall told you he had been asked to do a post-mortem examination on Libby Squire’s body.

"He noted her clothing and what she was wearing. He noted some general features of her body.

"Some of her hair on her head had gone because of decomposition and he went through some post-mortem changes.”

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury starts fifth day of talks

 

[C.greek]

Interesting that they keep asking to go over the evidence. Do we know any similar trials where this happened? I feel like others I have followed haven't done this??

Is it even remotely possible that we got more than snippets, same as the jury? And they are trying to go over all evidence presented because it was so muffled in court?

 

[jamjim]

14:10
More on what Dr Lyall said

Justice Lambert continued: “He said that there was ingrained dirt and silt on the back of each hand and the lower part of the torso, the neck and upper parts of the chest was ingrained and he said this is just the sort of feature you may encounter on a body that has been exposed to this sort of material at the time.”

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury starts fifth day of talks

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Does anyone know if this address/response will be public or if it is part of the deliberation behind closed doors?

Thanks you @jamjim for all your very timely updates on this thread. Much appreciated.

I can't be certain but my belief is it will be discussed back in open court, the fact we are being told what the question is indicates so.
If it were subject to any reporting restrictions we wouldn't even be privy to what the question was.

Happy to stand corrected by anyone who knows differently.

 

[jamjim]

@sophcorcoran
·
1m

Justice Lambert is now reading a summary of Dr Lyall’s evidence to the jury.

 

[bos]

I’m fairly sure they have someone who types up the whole case either using short hand or sheer speed. It’s a career and the people who do it are very competent- my mum was an audio typist for many years- literally typed up as people spoke.

Sorry, my post wasn’t very clear I know that there are court stenographers who record the evidence in court. I hope the jury will hear that word for word rather than the judge summarising Dr Lyall’s evidence.

For our benefit I hope that the HDM reporter can convey with much more clarity what Dr Lyall’s said(it helps if you can hear the question he’s said it in response to).When he was on the stand the report about little haemorrhages were muddled

 

[CoverMeCagney]

@sophcorcoran
·
1m

Justice Lambert is now reading a summary of Dr Lyall’s evidence to the jury.

Any connection @Lyall0814?

Ingrained dirt? I’m thinking that must be from contact/friction with a muddy surface? Torso and back of hands. Or does he mean it’s just muck and silt from being in water?

 

[bos]

Certainly looking more detailed than what we’d previously heard

 

[Ruthbullock]

Sorry, my post wasn’t very clear I know that there are court stenographers who record the evidence in court. I hope the jury will hear that word for word rather than the judge summarising Dr Lyall’s evidence.

For our benefit I hope that the HDM reporter can convey with much more clarity what Dr Lyall’s said(it helps if you can hear the question he’s said it in response to).When he was on the stand the report about little haemorrhages were muddled

Got you, yes I misunderstood sorry

 

[jamjim]

14:18
Reminder of the marks and injuries on Libby's body

Justice Lambert continued: “He [Dr Lyall] said there may have been subtle marks that were no longer visible to him.

He noted about 14 marks and he said at the outset that these may be consistent with being caused after death in the water. A lot if not all could be explained in this way.

"He went through the list quite quickly. He recorded in the upper side of the head an area of grazing. No injuries to the back of the skull to the left side of the face there were lots of small areas of grazes similar to what are seen on bodies removed from water.

"Abrasion on the forehead, the nose and the eyelids all consistent with movement of the body in water and he thought all probably happened after death.

"Superficial skin on the ears had been removed in places which could be the result of grazing in the water. Other abrasions all consistent with post-mortem passage of the body in water.

"There was a vertical laceration, a split or a tear caused by blunt force which could have been made by a fist or table on the inner surface of the upper lip.

"He said it could have been caused in water or in life close to the time of death he noted no bruises.

"He said there were no tiny pinprick areas of bleeding where blood comes out of the tiny veins in the body in the lining of the eyes or inner surface of the lips.

"The significance of that he explained that in cases where the body has not been dead for very long you can sometimes see these little bleeds and they can be an indicator of a physical interruption of breezing such as apshyxiation or strangulation.

"Likewise the absence of them did not mean she had not been aspyhixiated. They only remain on a temporary basis and in particular after death they don’t stay for very long.

"It did not exclude mechanical asphyxia. He noted superficial skin loss of the neck and some abrasions to the back of the neck.”

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury starts fifth day of talks

 

[C.greek]

Any connection @Lyall0814?

Ingrained dirt? I’m thinking that must be from contact/friction with a muddy surface? Torso and back of hands. Or does he mean it’s just muck and silt from being in water?

The second I'd say

 

[Sooty]

Any connection @Lyall0814?

Ingrained dirt? I’m thinking that must be from contact/friction with a muddy surface? Torso and back of hands. Or does he mean it’s just muck and silt from being in water?

I think it is common in bodies in rivers due them being dragged by the forces of the water, facing downwards towards the river bed, for the length of time. Sorry, it’s just horrible.

 

[Newthoughts]

Yes iirc her dad (step dad?) was top suspect at first due to his interest in BDSM... because all kinksters are murderers, right?!

Dad.

LB put her parents thru hell on the stand suggesting suicide. He got access to her schools books, diaries etc..

At least here her parents haven't formed part of PRs defence.

 

[jamjim]

14:21
Dr Lyall's evidence continued

Justice Lamber added: “The first thing he [Dr Lyall] noted was there were scars affecting her body that we’ve heard about in other context consistent with historic self harm.

"He noted that there was an area of patchy discolouration which he couldn’t say was inflicted in life or death as decomposition had made it too difficult to be sure one way or another.

"There were bruises around 4 or 5cm on the lower left of the tummy, probably he thought that had happened in life but the trouble was the size and appearance of it after death may have altered after death. It might not have been as large as he found it to be.

"He went on to examine the upper limbs and he noted that there was damage to the knuckles which he thought might be the effect of the hands trailing on the bottom of the river.”

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury starts fifth day of talks

 

[Newthoughts]

Yes of course. But in this case the police actually apologised to the family later done the line because whilst they were investigating the dad, who had an alibi, there were missed opportunities to catch/link it to Bellfield.

Much later. By which time LB has killed again