Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #12 *ARREST*

[Strontium69]

No details at all? That is interesting given the first time he was charged we were given addresses. Could that be to prevent possible prejudice in a future trail? Or just that he's already going beyond that court so this is normal?

Wasn't the first a Magistrates court and this is the High Court? Different procedures?

I guess the High Court doesn't need to know WHERE, because it is the same offence in any public street?

 

[Vermont24]

10:46
KEY EVENT
Pawel Relowicz pleads not guilty to all charges

He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

The stones on this guy!

My legal knowledge is very basic, so can someone explain the thinking behind a not guilty plea under the circumstances, please?

He was arrested on suspicion of abduction. Fingerprints and DNA samples will have been taken as a matter of procedure. Presumably this has immediately tied him to existing forensic evidence in the database and implicated him in several outstanding cases. His face is now out there, which has in turn prompted additional people to come forward.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

11:04
No bail application

No application for bail. A further hearing to review the case will take place on June 18.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

11:05
KEY EVENT
What the judge told the defendant

The judge said: “Pawel Relowicz, will you stand up please. Your trial in relation to these matters will take place on the 22nd of July.

“I have made various orders today for things to happen between now and that time, and there will be a further hearing in this case in June.

“As far as you’re concerned, the important date is the 22nd of July and I have no doubt there will be considerable contact between you and your lawyers between now and then.

“There’s no application for bail, at least at this stage, so you will remain in custody. You can go.”

The hearing has ended.

 

[JosieJo]

From being down there at night this is a rough estimation of how the light from the far bank shines on to that part of the park.

The back of the buildings and the bank are well illuminated. Down in the trees in that part of the wooded area there is enough ambient light to read by.

It's tricky up on the bank because the lights are blinding meaning that even though you can see your environment you cannot see your footing. However, when you get close to the bank you can see the river in front of you.

It would be easy for a drunk person to fall foul along here, particularly at the steps, lose their footing and fall. BUT how would a drunk person get all the way along the path to that spaot, negotiate the abandoned buildings, and get up onto the bank in the first place.

Thanks for the info

Is there a raised embankment all the way along that area of the river or is there any part that's a flatter "run" to the river at any point?

For someone drunk who didn't know the park but ended up in there is it possible they would run towards light if trying to get away

Could the weather conditions of ice and snow alter the likelihood of ending up accidentally in the river ?

 

[Vermont24]

Is there a raised embankment all the way along that area of the river or is there any part that's a flatter "run" to the river at any point?

The river is beyond a raised embankment at all points on the playing field. Even the footpath atop the embankment isn't immediately next to the river.

 

[Newthoughts]

The stones on this guy!

My legal knowledge is very basic, so can someone explain the thinking behind a not guilty plea under the circumstances, please?

He was arrested on suspicion of abduction. Fingerprints and DNA samples will have been taken as a matter of procedure. Presumably this has immediately tied him to existing forensic evidence in the database and implicated him in several outstanding cases. His face is now out there, which has in turn prompted additional people to come forward.

Voyeurism especially must be difficult to prove so I'm guessing CPS needed real good evidence for the police to proceed. As for his burglaries - some of the stuff must have been found - the first one was 3 vibrators for goodness sake. As you say once the police had his DNA and fingerprints they must have cleared up a load of unsolved crimes.

What would a solicitor advise?

That just increases my feeling of premeditation. There is something not quite adding up about this guy.

 

[Strontium69]

Thanks for the info

Is there a raised embankment all the way along that area of the river or is there any part that's a flatter "run" to the river at any point?

For someone drunk who didn't know the park but ended up in there is it possible they would run towards light if trying to get away

Could the weather conditions of ice and snow alter the likelihood of ending up accidentally in the river ?

Yeah @Vermont24 is right - the entire stretch of the river is banked due to high risk of flooding. At EVERY POINT from the park area to the river you would have stiff walk of half a dozen or more yards at a steep incline, maybe upto 45 degrees. It's probably 2 or 3 metres high? It's unavoidable and impossible to not be aware of it. It is probably steep enough to foil a decently drunk drunk!

 

[Audiohoney]

The stones on this guy!

My legal knowledge is very basic, so can someone explain the thinking behind a not guilty plea under the circumstances, please?

He was arrested on suspicion of abduction. Fingerprints and DNA samples will have been taken as a matter of procedure. Presumably this has immediately tied him to existing forensic evidence in the database and implicated him in several outstanding cases. His face is now out there, which has in turn prompted additional people to come forward.

Thanks @MsMiniSleuth for this mornings court timeline.

Ewww that grey jumper again.

Vermont, if I remember rightly it was suggested his ‘not guilty’ plea would almost be expected at this stage. I was shocked too with the wealth of evidence they must have against him to prosecute, the balls on the guy to try for not guilty!!!! But I believe somebody suggested (maybe @Happylappy101 our resident legal expert) that pleading not guilty would be expected at this level, now his lawyers will be privy to the evidence to be presented against him and this is when his plea might change ahead of July 22. Please correct me if I’m wrong Happy.

 

[yoyo1]

The stones on this guy!

My legal knowledge is very basic, so can someone explain the thinking behind a not guilty plea under the circumstances, please?

He was arrested on suspicion of abduction. Fingerprints and DNA samples will have been taken as a matter of procedure. Presumably this has immediately tied him to existing forensic evidence in the database and implicated him in several outstanding cases. His face is now out there, which has in turn prompted additional people to come forward.

Maybe hes been advised that hes better off pleading not guilty and serving time on remand rather than pleading guilty, being sentenced and being locked up in general circulation..

 

[Vermont24]

Brief aside - for all the talk of how dark the park is etc, it's worth remembering the weather conditions at the time. Though the footpaths and streets were mostly clear, snow was still laying on grass and areas without high foot traffic.

If you've ever walked through a snow-covered park or field at night, you'll know how much brighter it can appear.

 

[Joelle88]

Well, I’ve been at court again today. There were so many reporters there, regrettably, I didn’t take down the street names of the new alleged crimes, instead I spent all my time in there watching Pawel closely - I could kick myself!

I do remember clearly - outraging public decency - Masturbating on Newland Avenue.

Voyeurism - watching an unconsenting female in a private act on Chester Avenue.

Voyeurism - watching an unconsenting female in a private act on either Manvers Avenue or Manvers Street.

He was still without his glasses and had a new shorter hairstyle.

At times, he was chewing the inside of his lip.
He didn’t turn his head to look in the direction of the public gallery, but at times had a quick glance out of the corner of his eyes.

Two Humberside Police Officers were in attendance, one of them jotted down notes in a book, the other officer didn’t seem to take his eyes off Pawel.

It was mentioned in court, that the courtroom for the trial must have the facilities to show the CCTV footage evidence.

It was also mentioned, that there are a huge amount of witnesses, but Pawel’s Barrister told the Judge that they would likely be paired down before the trial.

Ten days were given for the trial as extra time was given due to Pawel needing a translator.

 

[Vermont24]

Voyeurism - watching an unconsenting female in a private act on Chester Avenue.

Voyeurism - watching an unconsenting female in a private act on either Manvers Avenue or Manvers Street.

Again, around the corner from his house.

 

[Joelle88]

Exactly!

 

[Vermont24]

Exactly!

That might actually be Chatham Ave, rather than Chester.

 

[LucyRocket]

He may not be going not guilty in the sense that you are assuming.

He may be making a case for not guilty on the grounds of...... mental illness??

So not, not guilty as in I didn't do it, but not guilty in I did it but wasn't responsible for my actions, by reason of mental impairment

 

[LucyRocket]

Well, I’ve been at court again today. There were so many reporters there, regrettably, I didn’t take down the street names of the new alleged crimes, instead I spent all my time in there watching Pawel closely - I could kick myself!

I do remember clearly - outraging public decency - Masturbating on Newland Avenue.

Voyeurism - watching an unconsenting female in a private act on Chester Avenue.

Voyeurism - watching an unconsenting female in a private act on either Manvers Avenue or Manvers Street.

He was still without his glasses and had a new shorter hairstyle.

At times, he was chewing the inside of his lip.
He didn’t turn his head to look in the direction of the public gallery, but at times had a quick glance out of the corner of his eyes.

Two Humberside Police Officers were in attendance, one of them jotted down notes in a book, the other officer didn’t seem to take his eyes off Pawel.

It was mentioned in court, that the courtroom for the trial must have the facilities to show the CCTV footage evidence.

It was also mentioned, that there are a huge amount of witnesses, but Pawel’s Barrister told the Judge that they would likely be paired down before the trial.

Ten days were given for the trial as extra time was given due to Pawel needing a translator.

Excellent reporting from you once again Joelle. Thank you for making the time and effort to go, I am very grateful for your first-hand observations

and please, don't have nightmares

 

[Zazie]

I don't quite understand one part of this when the witness son said about hearing the screams "it sounded like he was moving". Did he make a mistake here and mean she (the person who was screaming) was moving rather than "he".

The quote re "moving" is from the father's secondary account of his son's experience. I assumed "he" was a typo or misunderstanding, since the son's account only refers to "a woman's scream" and nothing else. Unhelpful, I agree!

Having done a little digging I don’t think PR has family in the UK. I know some people suggested a family member might have been an accomplice but I don’t think that’s possible. His sister lived here in 2014 but since moved to Norway. His other siblings live in Germany and the small town he is from in Poland. Most are younger than he is and still live at the family home.

@Audiohoney , do you have an MSM link regarding relatives being in Germany, or was that from social media and therefore out of bounds? As far as I could gather, there are eight siblings: Paulina Szymanska variously placed by MSM in Poland or Norway (28); Pawel (second eldest at 24) in Hull; four "younger brothers aged 11-18", in Warszewice with mother; a second sister who worked at Karro Foods - I haven't seen anything about her current whereabouts from MSM; plus an eighth sibling, gender/whereabouts unknown.

I don't think Paulina Szymanska (who gave that early damning interview to the Telegraph re Pawel giving a weeping girl a lift) is the same as Karro Foods sister. The wording of the Telegraph's interview with Paulina, seems to imply these are separate sisters?

"After qualifying as a chef, he followed one of his sisters to the UK where she was working for a meat company in Hull. Ms Szymanska said: "He never really had any male friends..."etc.
Libby Squire: Sister of butcher held over missing student reveals he comforted her on night she vanished - but insists he's innocent

(Incidentally, don't think I had clocked the bit about PR being a qualified chef before. Fits in with the cake baking, I guess!)

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Does PR's legal team know at this stage, what evidence LE have for these charges?

 

[Audiohoney]

W

He may not be going not guilty in the sense that you are assuming.

He may be making a case for not guilty on the grounds of...... mental illness??

So not, not guilty as in I didn't do it, but not guilty in I did it but wasn't responsible for my actions, by reason of mental impairment

Wouldn’t that be guilty but with diminished responsibility though?

I still think it’s normal to plead not guilty at this stage. That can change prior to July 22 when his lawyers are shown the evidence against him