Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #12 *ARREST*

[Strontium69]

Quick and dirty thoughts on covering your tracks. Or not.

PR's car - LS's DNA is found, probably her hair. PR can explain that by saying he merely gave her a lift. She was alive and well the whole time she was in the car, so no blood, cadaverine or putrescine is found.

The park - LE certainly found and took things away, but were they related to LS and PR? If they were, perhaps they could be explained by them simply being there or, at worst, a consensual sexual encounter.

No LS - I think this really is down to pot luck with the river.

I'm with you...

but I just struggle with the river bit. I think there are too many things that need to align...

I don't rule it out though.

 

[Strontium69]

The lipgloss, hammer and screwdriver which were quickly dismissed as not being part of the investigation?

The tabloids were actually on the scene when that happened, and immediately splashed pictures of them all over the internet. LE had to say something.

Were they?

 

[Vermont24]

Were they?

Screwdriver, hammer and lip gloss found by police amid new sighting

 

[Plod]

The lipgloss, hammer and screwdriver which were quickly dismissed as not being part of the investigation?

Yes they were. Can someone find the quote from the police?

There could be DNA evidence - hair alone could place LS or PR in the park. Other bodily fluids ... even just saliva. Difficult to get I agree because it was frozen ground, but there could still be something, and that’s why they were there late night, placing markers and photograph. We just don’t know...

 

[Newthoughts]

My doubts are because I fail see how he could cover his tracks so well.

How do you know he has? LE have presented him with a change sheet as long as your arm. He'll be locked away until July at least. Probably get sentenced which will hold him for a bit longer. Giving LE time to process lots of evidence before they charge him with Libby.

They have taken away loads of stuff that all needs processing. Plus lots of CCTV and dashcam footage of that night and possibly others.

People have suggested they expected more charges. So far the charges are 'unrelated'. What if there are other charges but LE see links to Libby's disappearance in them so have held them back.

Secondly lots of hypothesising has centred on him just spotting Libby and suddenly taking an opportunity to assault / rape a vulnerable young woman. Then accidently spent minutes suffocating / strangling her. Then it would seem hard to believe he could cover his tracks I agree. But what if he's spent time planning this?

Look at the location of spidercam on Haworth street and look at what's around it. Ideal for snooping I think. How do we know that isn't a regular haunt of his to look out for young women? And think about escalating his behavior and how.

He's been charged with going into young women's houses and stealing personal items. That suggests he knew it was safe to break in and I'd be surprised if a voyeur like him had just struck lucky with what he found. Planning?

I really think if Libby hadn't been there he'd have snatched someone soon. I think this is premeditated.

Thirdly Libby gets into a car with what appears to be one sexually deviant offender but he doesn't do anything and she still disappears. She wasn't near water herself. She wasn't run over. How could she just disappear herself?

Everything about this case gives me a sense of unease.

 

[Plod]

How do you know he has? LE have presented him with a change sheet as long as your arm. He'll be locked away until July at least. Probably get sentenced which will hold him for a bit longer. Giving LE time to process lots of evidence before they charge him with Libby.

They have taken away loads of stuff that all needs processing. Plus lots of CCTV and dashcam footage of that night and possibly others.

People have suggested they expected more charges. So far the charges are 'unrelated'. What if there are other charges but LE see links to Libby's disappearance in them so have held them back.

Secondly lots of hypothesising has centred on him just spotting Libby and suddenly taking an opportunity to assault / rape a vulnerable young woman. Then accidently spent minutes suffocating / strangling her. Then it would seem hard to believe he could cover his tracks I agree. But what if he's spent time planning this?

Look at the location of spidercam on Haworth street and look at what's around it. Ideal for snooping I think. How do we know that isn't a regular haunt of his to look out for young women? And think about escalating his behavior and how.

He's been charged with going into young women's houses and stealing personal items. That suggests he knew it was safe to break in and I'd be surprised if a voyeur like him had just struck lucky with what he found. Planning?

I really think if Libby hadn't been there he'd have snatched someone soon. I think this is premeditated.

Thirdly Libby gets into a car with what appears to be one sexually deviant offender but he doesn't do anything and she still disappears. She wasn't near water herself. She wasn't run over. How could she just disappear herself?

Everything about this case gives me a sense of unease.

Great reply

 

[PaddyOreally?]

Yes they were. Can someone find the quote from the police?

There could be DNA evidence - hair alone could place LS or PR in the park. Other bodily fluids ... even just saliva. Difficult to get I agree because it was frozen ground, but there could still be something, and that’s why they were there late night, placing markers and photograph. We just don’t know...

Weren't they at that bench when they were running out of time to charge pr?

Like it was some last ditch attempt to find something incriminating?

It is odd they popped out in the dark just to look at that bench. One theory on here was that pr might have told the police him and Libby were on that bench as to explain why his DNA might be on it but why would he say that? Because I'm assuming they hadn't found any on the bench before that

 

[Strontium69]

Screwdriver, hammer and lip gloss found by police amid new sighting

But did the Police definitively rule them out? Or were they never 'ruled in'?

I don't remember reading myself about the three items being struck off, but I do remember lots of posters saying that they had been ruled out!

 

[Vermont24]

But did the Police definitively rule them out? Or were they never 'ruled in'?

There's a quote somewhere, but I can't find it. The point is that police didn't volunteer this evidence, the media did.

 

[Vermont24]

'Lip gloss and tools found on Sunday afternoon on Beresford Avenue were not linked to Libby, police confirmed.'

Everything that happened on fourth day of search for missing Libby

As a friend who lives on Beresford said at the time, 'There's always [chocolate pudding] in that bush'.

 

[Newthoughts]

But did the Police definitively rule them out? Or were they never 'ruled in'?

I don't remember reading myself about the three items being struck off, but I do remember lots of posters saying that they had been ruled out!

If I recall - LE said something along the lines of unconnected with this enquiry. I'll have to try and find it

 

[Vermont24]

If I recall - LE said something along the lines of unconnected with this enquiry. I'll have to try and find it

Or just glance at the post above.

 

[Newthoughts]

Or just glance at the post above.

Thanks

 

[Strontium69]

There's a quote somewhere, but I can't find it. The point is that police didn't volunteer this evidence, the media did.

Screwdriver, hammer and lip gloss found by police amid new sighting

The Police surely must have allowed these photos to go out?

The ONLY time they were cagey before was putting a cordon around the pond/river when they were searching early on to protect public sensibilities on the off chance a body was found.

The only other evidence I've been aware of that they've been cagey about is other potential CCTV.

The only reason then I can think of them to withhold CCTV and details of other physical evidence is to wrong-foot PR when it comes to the trial and trap him in a lie. Which means that this physical/cctv evidence that they are withholding can't be strong enough on its own, but somehow, somewhere, in ways that can't satisfy a court of law, they are certain he did it.

Otherwise they would hit him with this evidence, presented it to the CPS, and charged him with abduction like they originally wanted and let it wash through in the court room if he continues to plead not guilty. Why then is their evidence to back up the abduction charge so weak they have to play cat and mouse with PR?

 

[Winterbells]

The area is well known to locals yes. Along this stretch kids sit along here at sunset when the weather is warm. You cannot fail to bump into a dog walker along here at all day light hours.

I knew about the steps because I knew people who were in the rowing team back in the 80s when the boathouse and the steps were actually in use!

Kids and dog walkers would probably know about the steps.

As for someone like PR... I would be have to be wondering why a man living on Raglan with a young family would be exploring that area?

I'm a cyclist and a photographer - I've done lots of urbex around Hull, so I was already very familiar with this abandoned area.

But why would PR be venturing this far? Bringing his family to the park? Walking a dog (did they have a dog?). He would naturally enter the park via Beresford, park his car in the car park or the stretch outside, and use that path to the riverside.

That would presuppose either that he was already thinking and planning for something, and mentally mapping places out for future use, OR he became familiar with the area as a 'local' and naturally gravitated towards it when his offending escalated.

For my money - I can't see a man in PR's situation naturally becoming familiar with the park and this part of the river bank. There's no major impetus we know of - i.e. cycling, photography, dog walking, to bring him to the riverbank.

But I guess living here with a family for a few years, there is every chance they regularly used the park.

As for the abandoned buildings - they have been there so long most people just see through them. Kids gravitate to them obviously. There's always signs of recent fires in there.

However, for dealing and kids actually hanging out, that would more likely be the skate park than the abandoned buildings. It's not the place for dealers, if at all that would be the skate park.

Would he fish there? His mother said somewhere he likes fishing.

 

[Joolz1975]

What was deleted??

I was a bit speechless that you thought PR was watching a threesome through a window .

Then saw a few posts afterwards that you had realised he hadn't.

 

[TheCasual]

How do you know he has? LE have presented him with a change sheet as long as your arm. He'll be locked away until July at least. Probably get sentenced which will hold him for a bit longer. Giving LE time to process lots of evidence before they charge him with Libby.

They have taken away loads of stuff that all needs processing. Plus lots of CCTV and dashcam footage of that night and possibly others.

People have suggested they expected more charges. So far the charges are 'unrelated'. What if there are other charges but LE see links to Libby's disappearance in them so have held them back.

Secondly lots of hypothesising has centred on him just spotting Libby and suddenly taking an opportunity to assault / rape a vulnerable young woman. Then accidently spent minutes suffocating / strangling her. Then it would seem hard to believe he could cover his tracks I agree. But what if he's spent time planning this?

Look at the location of spidercam on Haworth street and look at what's around it. Ideal for snooping I think. How do we know that isn't a regular haunt of his to look out for young women? And think about escalating his behavior and how.

He's been charged with going into young women's houses and stealing personal items. That suggests he knew it was safe to break in and I'd be surprised if a voyeur like him had just struck lucky with what he found. Planning?

I really think if Libby hadn't been there he'd have snatched someone soon. I think this is premeditated.

Thirdly Libby gets into a car with what appears to be one sexually deviant offender but he doesn't do anything and she still disappears. She wasn't near water herself. She wasn't run over. How could she just disappear herself?

Everything about this case gives me a sense of unease.

I can't argue with the points you make really.

Maybe he's just got incredibly lucky?

 

[Strontium69]

'Lip gloss and tools found on Sunday afternoon on Beresford Avenue were not linked to Libby, police confirmed.'

Everything that happened on fourth day of search for missing Libby

As a friend who lives on Beresford said at the time, 'There's always [chocolate pudding] in that bush'.

Ah right...found on Day One? ruled out on Day Four?

 

[LastSeenWearing]

Screwdriver, hammer and lip gloss found by police amid new sighting

The Police surely must have allowed these photos to go out?

The ONLY time they were cagey before was putting a cordon around the pond/river when they were searching early on to protect public sensibilities on the off chance a body was found.

The only other evidence I've been aware of that they've been cagey about is other potential CCTV.

The only reason then I can think of them to withhold CCTV and details of other physical evidence is to wrong-foot PR when it comes to the trial and trap him in a lie. Which means that this physical/cctv evidence that they are withholding can't be strong enough on its own, but somehow, somewhere, in ways that can't satisfy a court of law, they are certain he did it.

Otherwise they would hit him with this evidence, presented it to the CPS, and charged him with abduction like they originally wanted and let it wash through in the court room if he continues to plead not guilty. Why then is their evidence to back up the abduction charge so weak they have to play cat and mouse with PR?

Maybe because once PR and Libby are in the park there is no longer any cctv so no evidence whatsoever of what went on there and no witnesses as the 4 people LE wanted to come forward still have not.

 

[Happygirlie2003]

The thing I don’t get is surely out of respect if LE think for certain LS is dead her parents surely must have been told there is no hope of finding her alive but how on earth if this is the case could they keep something like that from other friends and family and keep up a pretence of not knowing on top of the horrific situation she’s still missing. It’s actually unimaginable what they are going through