Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #16 *ARREST*

[Newthoughts]

I

No, you aren't. There's no evidence of that as far as I am aware. I won't condemn anybody based on assumptions.

Do you think, in that case, someone else was involved?

 

[motherofdaughters]

I

Do you think, in that case, someone else was involved?

I honestly don’t know, I’ve just never been convinced it was him. From what we know of him, I just don’t feel it.
As said we don’t know enough facts over all but I think IF there was the evidence, even heavy circumstantial they’d gave charged.

 

[Eyes Wide Open]

I've only skim read this, but it looks to me as though he could be given consecutive sentences because there are different types of crime, ie theft/burglary is completely different from the sexual crimes, and committed on different occasions.
Totality

I got to the same section of @Winterbells' attachment as you did, @Cherwell. Apart from the nature of the crimes, the most damning feature for sentencing is the range of crimes, victims, locations and dates. Maybe the gravity of them is not great but there is now an admission that he has committed a range of different crimes. I wonder how many victim statements were tendered to the court! The judge surely has to take this into account when determining a fair and reasonable outcome. Consecutive sentencing could well be invoked. In 48 hrs we'll presumably know.

 

[Newthoughts]

I honestly don’t know, I’ve just never been convinced it was him. From what we know of him, I just don’t feel it.
As said we don’t know enough facts over all but I think IF there was the evidence, even heavy circumstantial they’d gave charged.

Weirdly I feel the opposite.

I agree wholeheartedly that we don't know the facts. And I wouldn't condemn anyone without those and would expect nothing less for charges from LE. My opinion would change if new stuff came to light. I'd expect proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court. But for feeling on the little we know I think he's certainly capable and I think he has to be involved

The voyeurism, thefts and exposure suggest a bit of planning to me. I can see no reason for him to be parked by spidercam at that time other than to wait for students returning home. The behaviours we know of have gone on for at least 2 years and seemed to be increasing in the month before. Why wouldn't he escalate that behavior to the next level? .

Then with massive caveats regarding the dubious nature of our press and mistranslation and everything else that's been mentioned - my heart first sank when his sister and mother gave the crying girl story to the papers. Before spidercam.

It wasn't the expected 'he'd never do that'. Nor was it the usual tabloid character assassination crap from friends / colleagues of either 'he was always weird' or 'he would never do that'. Instead they gave a bizarre story that it's unlikely even our press would fabricate. Stuff specific to the event with detail nobody would know or make up. Crying girl, address in sat nav, coming on to him - why introduce any of that as a reporter or family member. And no conclusion or end to the story he'd given. No 'he dropped her at her house / side of road / pub'

People on here that have seen him in court are certain it is him on spidercam. Others are sure it's his car. Libby's last known sighting is close to someone being put into that car.

And, though there are undoubtedly miscarriages of Justice - LE do get quite often get it right.

I think from what little we know there is good circumstantial evidence to charge him. Certainly with abduction. So either there is more to this case than meets the eye, or LE want to go for a more serious charge or they can't reach the level of proof required.

 

[Plod]

Weirdly I feel the opposite.

I agree wholeheartedly that we don't know the facts. And I wouldn't condemn anyone without those and would expect nothing less for charges from LE. My opinion would change if new stuff came to light. I'd expect proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court. But for feeling on the little we know I think he's certainly capable and I think he has to be involved

The voyeurism, thefts and exposure suggest a bit of planning to me. I can see no reason for him to be parked by spidercam at that time other than to wait for students returning home. The behaviours we know of have gone on for at least 2 years and seemed to be increasing in the month before. Why wouldn't he escalate that behavior to the next level? .

Then with massive caveats regarding the dubious nature of our press and mistranslation and everything else that's been mentioned - my heart first sank when his sister and mother gave the crying girl story to the papers. Before spidercam.

It wasn't the expected 'he'd never do that'. Nor was it the usual tabloid character assassination crap from friends / colleagues of either 'he was always weird' or 'he would never do that'. Instead they gave a bizarre story that it's unlikely even our press would fabricate. Stuff specific to the event with detail nobody would know or make up. Crying girl, address in sat nav, coming on to him - why introduce any of that as a reporter or family member. And no conclusion or end to the story he'd given. No 'he dropped her at her house / side of road / pub'

People on here that have seen him in court are certain it is him on spidercam. Others are sure it's his car. Libby's last known sighting is close to someone being put into that car.

And, though there are undoubtedly miscarriages of Justice - LE do get quite often get it right.

I think from what little we know there is good circumstantial evidence to charge him. Certainly with abduction. So either there is more to this case than meets the eye, or LE want to go for a more serious charge or they can't reach the level of proof required.

I have to say I agree totally with you. I just think the weight of evidence that she was in his car and all that has ensued... she’s found dead in the river... and he’s now admitted sexual crimes... it’s all too coincidental to think he’s not involved in her death.


There must be some level of doubt in the police’s mind that they can prove his guilt -did she run off and fall in river/ threw herself in river - are they trying to prove he definitely killed her first and was the cause of her death...IMho this is why the police have brought in all kinds of river/forensic experts to ascertain cause of death. And this is what the delay in charge have been.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

For the avoidance of doubt, im in the 'it was very likely him' camp.

For all of the reasons Newthoughts pointed out.

I think LE have indicated they think it was him too, the problem is proving it.

 

[Newthoughts]

I have to say I agree totally with you. I just think the weight of evidence that she was in his car and all that has ensued... she’s found dead in the river... and he’s now admitted sexual crimes... it’s all too coincidental to think he’s not involved in her death.


There must be some level of doubt in the police’s mind that they can prove his guilt -did she run off and fall in river/ threw herself in river - are they trying to prove he definitely killed her first and was the cause of her death...IMho this is why the police have brought in all kinds of river/forensic experts to ascertain cause of death. And this is what the delay in charge have been.

I'd add they didn't call her death suspicious they called it potential homicide. I wonder if that's because they knew didn't drown. I wonder if some of the expertise they are looking at involves his phone and where she entered the water. I also thought the charge of receiving a stolen phone was a very random departure from the other charges.

 

[Cherwell]

Do you think, in that case, someone else was involved?

I have a completely open mind. I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Newthoughts]

I have a completely open mind. I wouldn't rule it out.

I wouldn't completely rule out anything but on the balance of probabilities given what we know at this point would you think it likely he's involved

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Cherwell with respect what you are saying is absolutely correct.
But, what are the chances of an active predatory sexual offender being the last known person to have contact with a vulnerable, now deceased girl and not being involved.
I know we dont know that for absolute certainty but the police must had had reasons to arrest, name and continually link him to the investigation despite the fact no charges have yet been brought.
Not impossible but as Newthoughts says, on the balance of probabilities, instinct says police have their man.

 

[Cherwell]

Cherwell with respect what you are saying is absolutely correct.
But, what are the chances of an active predatory sexual offender being the last known person to have contact with a vulnerable, now deceased girl and not being involved.
I know we dont know that for absolute certainty but the police must had had reasons to arrest, name and continually link him to the investigation despite the fact no charges have yet been brought.
Not impossible but as Newthoughts says, on the balance of probabilities, instinct says police have their man.

Of course. Taking everything into consideration, it seems likely that she got into his car. But it's a big leap to say that he killed her. I think if she'd been in his car, dead, then they would have found evidence to prove it.

 

[Newthoughts]

Of course. Taking everything into consideration, it seems likely that she got into his car. But it's a big leap to say that he killed her. I think if she'd been in his car, dead, then they would have found evidence to prove it.

But somehow she got from being alive on a street, close to her home, not near any river, to being found dead in the a Humber. Via a convicted sex offender.

 

[Sally4x]

Of course. Taking everything into consideration, it seems likely that she got into his car. But it's a big leap to say that he killed her. I think if she'd been in his car, dead, then they would have found evidence to prove it.

I agree. I am sure she got into his car which was why they arrested him for abduction, but I also think that something happened in the park and specifically on that bench they were examining early on. But whether he was involved in killing her or she ran off and either fell into the river or threw herself into the river, I don’t know how they can prove. And they also don’t know if she willingly went into the car or not. And none of the witnesses they wanted from the park area came forward. And if the reported screams from the park were a part of it. So difficult.

 

[Newthoughts]

I agree. I am sure she got into his car which was why they arrested him for abduction, but I also think that something happened in the park and specifically on that bench they were examining early on. But whether he was involved in killing her or she ran off and either fell into the river or threw herself into the river, I don’t know how they can prove. And they also don’t know if she willingly went into the car or not. And none of the witnesses they wanted from the park area came forward. And if the reported screams from the park were a part of it. So difficult.

And on the balance of probabilities - a drunk girl running on frozen, uneven ground, up a slight bank - falls far enough into a tidal river to be washed away rather than caught on the bank. Or a convicted sex offender does something to her.

 

[Katykins]

If spidercam car did drive in the direction of LS’ house or to the park, assuming it took a fairly direct route, did we ever ascertain where the last probable CCTV sighting would have been. Was there CCTV after the car left the main road?

 

[Newthoughts]

I agree. I am sure she got into his car which was why they arrested him for abduction, but I also think that something happened in the park and specifically on that bench they were examining early on. But whether he was involved in killing her or she ran off and either fell into the river or threw herself into the river, I don’t know how they can prove. And they also don’t know if she willingly went into the car or not. And none of the witnesses they wanted from the park area came forward. And if the reported screams from the park were a part of it. So difficult.

That none of the witnesses from the park area came forward upsets and unsettles me. They raise the possibility he didn't act alone.

 

[Plod]

All these doubts but one thing I know for sure the prosecution isn’t going to let him walk free on Friday. At the minute he remains a danger to the public.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Plod i hope you are right. Really i do.

 

[Newthoughts]

All these doubts but one thing I know for sure the prosecution isn’t going to let him walk free on Friday. At the minute he remains a danger to the public.

I hope you're right

 

[Mommysleuth11]

If spidercam car did drive in the direction of LS’ house or to the park, assuming it took a fairly direct route, did we ever ascertain where the last probable CCTV sighting would have been. Was there CCTV after the car left the main road?

There is definitely a fixed cctv camera on the Bev Rd/Cott Rd/Clough road junction but it would depend which way it was pointing. There was also some SM whispers of Sainsburys local on that junction having cctv images, although of course we haven"t been told anything officially, regarding any cctv images, except the oak rd one. I think even Spidercams release was only 'obtained' rather than released.