UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #20

[JosieJo]

His first aim would be to get her somewhere with some cover out of view ...either way its unlikely he took her direct to the Riverside and unlikely she reached the exact river edge before he caught her if she ran ...as the crow flies wouldn’t represent a series of events imo

 

[havntgotaclue]

I absolutely agree
When this thread first started everyone speculated on what the Police knew and we were all taken by surprise just how much evidence they did have in the end.
The public were given as little info as possible.
I also think the court reporter isn’t as vigilant as they should be and could be missing things out they don’t seem vital.
I think there’s still so much we don’t know that the police do.

Well it is hull live afterall reporting...need i say more

 

[Newthoughts]

I remember either his sister or mother mentioning the cooking school in the famous interview with the British press. His mother also said he specialised in baking cakes. There is no info about him here in Poland. All information about this case I find on Websleuths and in British press in Internet.

But I remember following this case from day one because my child was at Hull and her friends were the terrified victims of his theft of private items a few days before. They were genuinely really terrified because, as the judge said, it was sexually motivated and he didn't need to look far to find those things. It was really upsetting to think of Libby and I could not begin to imagine what her mother went thru.

So I read all the interviews when he was arrested hoping they'd suggest some hope for Libby being found. His poor mum and sisters said he'd taken a job as a butcher and that he liked to bake cakes. I like to bake cakes but I'm nowhere a qualified cook. Then they listed the various lies he'd told the police and his friends

So I'm intrigued as to which interview the cookery school info appeared in in case there is more relevant info in to suggest his mum had earlier concerns.

Is it possible you could find the link?

 

[HullGirl72]

His first aim would be to get her somewhere with some cover out of view ...either way its unlikely he took her direct to the Riverside and unlikely she reached the exact river edge before he caught her if she ran ...as the crow flies wouldn’t represent a series of events imo

I think it seems plausible that someone who can climax in public view because they are excited by shocking people, would be able to commit a rape with a girl unable to defend herself in one minute.
That level of excitement to him it probably took him mere seconds.

 

[Newthoughts]

Yes I agree too ...I think the lack of clarity on cause of death didn't help...I think even if budgets are tight I do not think they would delay charges as the majority of the evidence would have been gathered by the time she had been found ..I also think they wouldn't want the parents torture to go on any longer than necessary..theyvwould be waiting for a charge

I would imagine the parents were fully informed of everything

Bearing in mind in most cases much of the evidence gathering has been done before the arrest but here it was done after - what is the normal time for charging? I can't actually see any issue - cos you do not need cause of death.

Forensic tests do take time and I think we're only hearing edited highlights to give a flavour.

 

[JosieJo]

I think it seems plausible that someone who can climax in public view because they are excited by shocking people, would be able to commit a rape with a girl unable to defend herself in one minute.
That level of excitement to him it probably took him mere seconds.

True ...but I doubt he would want to be in view for rape ...massive step up ..also the witness looked out of the window for some time across the park looking for the screams ..he said visibility was good that night and couldn't see anything happening on the open ground

 

[HullGirl72]

True ...but I doubt he would want to be in view for rape ...massive step up ..also the witness looked out of the window for some time across the park looking for the screams ..he said visibility was good that night and couldn't see anything happening on the open ground

Yes I agree
But most of the Police focus centred on a bench
They knew where to look.

 

[Cherwell]

I think it seems plausible that someone who can climax in public view because they are excited by shocking people, would be able to commit a rape with a girl unable to defend herself in one minute.
That level of excitement to him it probably took him mere seconds.

I agree, and I did wonder earlier if he is unable to sustain actual intercourse for more than a few seconds. If that's the case, it might explain why he took to other ways of getting his thrills.

 

[JosieJo]

I would imagine the parents were fully informed of everything

Bearing in mind in most cases much of the evidence gathering has been done before the arrest but here it was done after - what is the normal time for charging? I can't actually see any issue - cos you do not need cause of death.

Forensic tests do take time.

Forensics can be fast tracked ...post mortem would probably take a little longer as specialists may be needed because of length of time in the water..my point was most of cctv , witnesses , phone data etc would have been done way before she was found as it would be urgent she was still a missing person...obviously if there was a clear traumtics cause of death it 100% would have made the charge quicker ...I agree the parents would be informed at all stages but it would still be more stressful without a charge

 

[JosieJo]

Yes I agree
But most of the Police focus centred on a bench
They knew where to look.

They spent far more time around the boathouse area ...the bench was a quick in the night visit

 

[JosieJo]

Do any locals know if the attack (screaming) was on the bench or on the field is it likely the witness at the house would have seen movement?

 

[HullGirl72]

Forensics can be fast tracked ...post mortem would probably take a little longer as specialists may be needed because of length of time in the water..my point was most of cctv , witnesses , phone data etc would have been done way before she was found as it would be urgent she was still a missing person...obviously if there was a clear traumtics cause of death it 100% would have made the charge quicker ...I agree the parents would be informed at all stages but it would still be more stressful without a charge

Exactly
He was arrested quickly
They knew it was him but just had to prove it with Libby being found too.
Too much circumstantial evidence.
Hence he was held on remand straight away
They must have given the judge enough evidence to show how dangerous he was

 

[Dotta]

There has been nothing to indicate PR is mentally ill. He will have been assessed in prison.

Well He isn't exactly sane either That's for sure

But I remember following this case from day one because my child was at Hull and her friends were the terrified victims of his theft of private items a few days before. They were genuinely really terrified because, as the judge said, it was sexually motivated and he didn't need to look far to find those things. It was really upsetting to think of Libby and I could not begin to imagine what her mother went thru.

So I read all the interviews when he was arrested hoping they'd suggest some hope for Libby being found. His poor mum and sisters said he'd taken a job as a butcher and that he liked to bake cakes. I like to bake cakes but I'm nowhere a qualified cook. Then they listed the various lies he'd told the police and his friends

So I'm intrigued as to which interview the cookery school info appeared in in case there is more relevant info in to suggest his mum had earlier concerns.

Is it possible you could find the link?

I will try. I really don't remember now, it's been a long time since I read it - nearly 2 years. It was on the Net-but maybe I misunderstood? I clearly remember his sister lived in England and after he finished school he decided to join her.

 

[Newthoughts]

Forensics can be fast tracked ...post mortem would probably take a little longer as specialists may be needed because of length of time in the water..my point was most of cctv , witnesses , phone data etc would have been done way before she was found as it would be urgent she was still a missing person...obviously if there was a clear traumtics cause of death it 100% would have made the charge quicker ...I agree the parents would be informed at all stages but it would still be more stressful without a charge

It can but it's costly and in this case unnecessary because he was already behind bars and as we now know - was unlikely to be getting out very soon given the evidence for his previous crimes.

Plus there was a lot of evidence to put together and collate. It looks like a really strong case to me - just looked even better thru @mrjitty go st summing up and the evidence as a whole picture is pretty damning - from his and prowling to his return.

I'm not sure what the normal period for charging would be when there is no urgency?

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Everything said during Libby Squire murder court case today

From above link,

"The suspect was arrested and questioned in August and charged with the rape and murder of 21-year-old Libby on Thursday, October 24."

I have no prior knowledge except from watching "24 hours in police custody" usually when a suspect is brought back in and re arrested they are ready to charge. Libbys body was released to her family at the end of August so forensics were in, hence the added rape charge. I was simply commenting that I agreed with a previous poster that 6-8 week delay in charging did indicate that there was perhaps some debate between the police and CPS. Imo

Also this link
CPS statement in relation to the death of Libby Squire | The Crown Prosecution Service
Which mentions the following,

"This decision was made following a careful review of all the evidence presented to us by Humberside Police"
Bbm

 

[JosieJo]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I really struggle with there being "no urgency" just because he is behind bars.
It was a massively public case of a girl picked up in a car and found in a river

Him being behind bars even as a suspect will not satisfy public opinion of the police , public safety ,and the family ...but just my opinion

 

[Newthoughts]

Well He isn't exactly sane either That's for sure

He wouldn't be standing trial if he were mentally ill. I agree he does not have the empathy of an average person - no average person would do what he did - but that doesn't make him mentally ill. He chose to do what he did.

I did wonder if he showed such traits before coming here.

I do feel desperately sad for his family but, if they have normal human empathy which I think his mother did, they would feel for Libby's loved ones. They would realise they needed justice for their daughter. They'd want them to get at least get that.

I know if it was a child of mine I'd want his victims to get justice.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Exactly
He was arrested quickly
They knew it was him but just had to prove it with Libby being found too.
Too much circumstantial evidence.
Hence he was held on remand straight away
They must have given the judge enough evidence to show how dangerous he was

He was released pending further investigation re Libby initially, he was charged and remanded in relation to all the other perverted offences.

 

[JosieJo]

Just looking at the Hull write up to try and find any indication of the scream witness view ...his view must have covered the skatepark and some of the park

"After going to the toilet briefly, he looked out of his window, on to a skate park, but could not see anything initially.

Mr Alford said there was a full moon and snow, so the visibility was good, and after a few minutes he saw a man crossing the park."

I didn't realise he saw him "crossing the park" I thought he saw him exiting it ...I wonder how much of him walking he saw and from what direction?

Witness in Libby Squire murder trial heard screams of ‘desperation’, court hears

 

[Newthoughts]

Everything said during Libby Squire murder court case today

From above link,

"The suspect was arrested and questioned in August and charged with the rape and murder of 21-year-old Libby on Thursday, October 24."

I have no prior knowledge except from watching "24 hours in police custody" usually when a suspect is brought back in and re arrested they are ready to charge. Libbys body was released to her family at the end of August so forensics were in, hence the added rape charge. I was simply commenting that I agreed with a previous poster that 6-8 week delay in charging did indicate that there was perhaps some debate between the police and CPS. Imo

Also this link
CPS statement in relation to the death of Libby Squire | The Crown Prosecution Service
Which mentions the following,

"This decision was made following a careful review of all the evidence presented to us by Humberside Police"
Bbm

I would hope all decisions are made after careful review.

In cases like this one how long does it normally take to charge?