UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #20

[Newthoughts]

Well, I wondered if the friend who was told the and bull story about Libby coming on to PR was perhaps a potential defence witness?

Hasn't he already appeared for the prosecution?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Someone posted some time ago that it was not a full moon that night, in fact only a small crescent moon, my google investigation concurs with this, it seems it was days away from full moon.

Are you implying Mr screaming man lied under oath Lol? He said it was clear enough to see all across the park- so whilst I may be incorrect with the actual shape of the moon and you may well be right - the point still stands that the witness himself said he could see across the park and the park wasn’t shrouded in darkness.

 

[Cherwell]

Someone posted some time ago that it was not a full moon that night, in fact only a small crescent moon, my google investigation concurs with this, it seems it was days away from full moon.

I don't think it matters. I guess he just assumed it was full moon, because the light levels were similar to those at full moon because of the light reflecting off the snow.

 

[Winterbells]

Hasn't he already appeared for the prosecution?

Oh. Yes, I think his statement has, you're right.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Things that could be used by the defence- I think the timings will be brought into question, perhaps a reconstruction (but I also doubt that on the basis that a public defender will have limited funds) to show timings and where contradictions may appear between CCTV and the timings of screaming man. There may be statements from Renault man or the Romanians that have been mentioned- they all seemed to have a similar idea of fun on an evening- which was parking at the end of that street. Alarmingly my friends daughter lived very very close to spidercam, at the time and did comment about cars always being parked there with people in- so it’s a bit of a hangout for boys and their cars. ( again not trying to justify anything, but potentially they can say what was happening on spidercam, maybe they saw interactions between the two of them) That’s about it- and that’s me stretching who I think will appear. I’m not sure they will have anything or anyone to add to the picture.

 

[Summer80]

I was thinking about the view from the back of The Lodge, the house in which it seems a witness lived. Walking back from the river, I used the wholly unscientific methodology of 'If I can see the window, the window can see me'. Obviously foliage changes from season to season and year to year, but I suspect the line of

I was thinking about the view from the back of The Lodge, the house in which it seems a witness lived. Walking back from the river, I used the wholly unscientific methodology of 'If I can see the window, the window can see me'. Obviously foliage changes from season to season and year to year, but I suspect the line of sight from the back bedroom window is something like the attached image. It's not panoramic, but coming from the direction of the river and abandoned buildings, you'd be in view for a period regardless of which exit you were taking either side of the (locked) car park.

Hi All. Thank you for you're time and sharing. I totally agree with this. I have a lovely view across a river where I live. I have recently walked it and was amazed how far it was.. nearly 2 miles according to maps as the crow flies. Now the trees have all died off I can clearly see a lot more. Too dark and far to see people far away in the dark where I am but point is if theres no leaves on the trees.. you're close enough and you can see as far as needed.. snow does make it lighter.. lets hope there is more to offer to prove him guilty. I also wonder about the other guy that was arrested just before PR seemed to up his antics... Is this when the police started zoning in on him and that's why the other guys "friend" he was cruising around with has never been mentioned .. jmo

 

[Sillybilly]

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[Winterbells]

Hi All. Thank you for you're time and sharing. I totally agree with this. I have a lovely view across a river where I live. I have recently walked it and was amazed how far it was.. nearly 2 miles according to maps as the crow flies. Now the trees have all died off I can clearly see a lot more. Too dark and far to see people far away in the dark where I am but point is if theres no leaves on the trees.. you're close enough and you can see as far as needed.. snow does make it lighter.. lets hope there is more to offer to prove him guilty. I also wonder about the other guy that was arrested just before PR seemed to up his antics... Is this when the police started zoning in on him and that's why the other guys "friend" he was cruising around with has never been mentioned .. jmo

I'm interested in what you're saying about the other guy arrested just before PR. Would you mind reminding me about this, because I can't remember anything about it? Thanks

 

[Summer80]

Dumb question- but I know they have said the prosecutions evidence is finished- but is anyone else surprised at the lack of forensic evidence that has been presented. The police spent many days at the playing fields. Is that the complete and final end of the evidence to get a conviction?I get he’s tangled up in a web of lies that will hopefully get him found guilty, but as far as we know, they haven’t even shown the footage of the car arriving and leaving, nor does there seem to have been any confirmation that the running man was indeed PR. Being reminded of those photos of the searches in the playing fields and around the edge of the river is the only thing that made me contemplate the fact we didn’t hear about any definitive evidence. We didn’t hear about vast searches of the playing fields only very specific areas and then some other random further out areas were searched very thoroughly- I wonder what intel led them to doing those searches.

I also wonder all this. Are the prosecution going to bring this out when hes in the stand to prove he's lieing or should this have been shown before hes on the stand? I'm not sure especially as some circumstances such as previous crimes were allowed to be a big factor than usual cases imo

 

[porkypies]

Are you implying Mr screaming man lied under oath Lol? He said it was clear enough to see all across the park- so whilst I may be incorrect with the actual shape of the moon and you may well be right - the point still stands that the witness himself said he could see across the park and the park wasn’t shrouded in darkness.

I am implying absolutely nothing, nor am I questioning the level of light in the park that night, but there are several mentions of full moon and I believe this is incorrect and am not the only person to say so. Why would posters want to continue working with an assumption when it is checkable, and to me, as a detail, it does matter? just ignore if you would prefer.

 

[Summer80]

The RNLI evidence was that Libby when recovered was wearing a bra type top, black skirt and trainers. Again I know we don't necessarily have all the information due to how and what exactly is reported. I was however surprised that if indeed she was found without her top and Jacket (it seems much more likely to me that shoes would be "washed away" than a jacket or top for example), that there has been no mention of if any missing clothes were ever recovered.

Sorry to jump backwards and if this has already been covered.

Hi.. I enjoy you're thoughts..This struck me also.. he said there was only her sports bra on show to her body at the top.. I immediately thought surley a trainer would slip off more easily.. were her other clothing ever found!?

 

[Summer80]

I'm interested in what you're saying about the other guy arrested just before PR. Would you mind reminding me about this, because I can't remember anything about it? Thanks

I can't remember whether it was this thread or the end of the last one. I'll see if I can find it. I only saw it yesterday and kind of scary how similar

 

[Cherwell]

I also wonder about the other guy that was arrested just before PR seemed to up his antics... Is this when the police started zoning in on him and that's why the other guys "friend" he was cruising around with has never been mentioned .. jmo

It was a Lithuanian man who raped a woman in Ash Grove, I think in 2017.

The police "zoned in" on PR because of the CCTV showing his car and his interactions with Libby.

 

[Summer80]

I can't remember whether it was this thread or the end of the last one. I'll see if I can find it. I only saw it yesterday and kind of scary how similar

Here it is

Rapist prowled streets leaving bloodied woman slumped in alley after attack

 

[Winterbells]

I can't remember whether it was this thread or the end of the last one. I'll see if I can find it. I only saw it yesterday and kind of scary how similar

Ah, I remember who you're talking about now. Don't worry, you don't need to go searching, I know who you mean, thanks

 

[Winterbells]

Here it is

Rapist prowled streets leaving bloodied woman slumped in alley after attack

Thanks, Summer.

 

[havntgotaclue]

Hi.. I enjoy you're thoughts..This struck me also.. he said there was only her sports bra on show to her body at the top.. I immediately thought surley a trainer would slip off more easily.. were her other clothing ever found!?

One wonders what happened to libbys jacket and her pants she allegedly removed in his car? he has a liking for trophys so i wonder if he stashed them somewhere to recover later before he was arrested. Cant see them being lost in river if skirt was still intact.

 

[Winterbells]

One wonders what happened to libbys jacket and her pants she allegedly removed in his car? he has a liking for trophys so i wonder if he stashed them somewhere to recover later before he was arrested. Cant see them being lost in river if skirt was still intact.

And she was wearing a black top. No mention of that either.

 

[mrazda71]

One wonders what happened to libbys jacket and her pants she allegedly removed in his car? he has a liking for trophys so i wonder if he stashed them somewhere to recover later before he was arrested. Cant see them being lost in river if skirt was still intact.

A jacket is going to come off far easier in water than a tight, fitted skirt or laced up Vans

 

[Newthoughts]

Things that could be used by the defence- I think the timings will be brought into question, perhaps a reconstruction (but I also doubt that on the basis that a public defender will have limited funds) to show timings and where contradictions may appear between CCTV and the timings of screaming man. There may be statements from Renault man or the Romanians that have been mentioned- they all seemed to have a similar idea of fun on an evening- which was parking at the end of that street. Alarmingly my friends daughter lived very very close to spidercam, at the time and did comment about cars always being parked there with people in- so it’s a bit of a hangout for boys and their cars. ( again not trying to justify anything, but potentially they can say what was happening on spidercam, maybe they saw interactions between the two of them) That’s about it- and that’s me stretching who I think will appear. I’m not sure they will have anything or anyone to add to the picture.

He has never stated that he went that far into the park with Libby so doesn't that preclude questions about timing as a defence?

The caution clearly states that "you do not have to say anything but It may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely in court"

I guess to stop defendants refusing to answer questions but then suddenly coming up with things in court when they couldn't be questioned or examined on it.

After his initial interview where he lied he resorted to 'no comment' so I'm not sure how he can query things he has chosen to refuse to address before when ample chance was given?

It would need a legal person to clarify whether that's allowed.

Plus I think he'd be on dodgy ground as clearly he had time to go into that park to rape. The subtle asphyxiation detailed by the expert could easily be part of that and how long does it take to throw somebody into a river if you're already close?