UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[Officer Dibble]

15:55
Libby was 'coping much better'

Justice Lambert is now recapping what Libby's boyfriend revealed.

She said: “You heard from her boyfriend and he understood that there had been suicide attempts before they got together.

"He said they were not, in his judgement, serious attempts and she did not want to die. He said when she made attempts they were spur of the moment and she would alert someone and he said she was ‘not strong enough to kill herself’.

“He said she had not self-harmed for seven or eight weeks and they struck a deal he wouldn’t smoke cannabis if she wouldn’t self-harm but he thought there had been a relapse before New Year as he had seen some cuts.

"He said his perspective as a boyfriend was that she had thrown herself into her course and really enjoyed it and was coping much better than he thought she would and she was doing really well.

“He told you something about Libby in drink. She was described as a happy, loud and loving drunk.

"You also heard statements read to you from her friends. They told you of some of the tensions in the house, how relevant that is is a matter for you.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

I don't recall tensions in the house. What did I miss?

 

[Officer Dibble]

How long do jurys retire for to consider a verdict usually? What sort of range are we looking at?

it can be weeks if they cannot come to a decision

 

[Officer Dibble]

Hi @tedtink

i have found it strange that whilst he has sought trophies from previous crimes and has mentioned how this excites him, he didn’t take a trophy from this encounter. For example if he had committed murder, he could have taken her necklace, or something else from about her person. I think, if we are to believe his version, that it’s possible that he went back to see if, indeed, her underwear had been left there in the vicinity, or something. That would fit with what we know about him. Also possible that he went to reimagine the sexual encounter. He seems to return to the same areas. MOO

How do we know he didn't take the jacket? Isn't the jacket missing?

 

[Officer Dibble]

Thanks again to @jamjim

 

[tigerowl]

I don't recall tensions in the house. What did I miss?

She had fallen out with one housemate and they weren't speaking and she was upset that another housemate was moving out (the next day, I think).

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I don't recall tensions in the house. What did I miss?

I am assuming it was a part of the trial that was not reported. I am not sure how many girls live in the house but I imagine there would be tensions from time to time. It is hard to live with people and not have differences. My hubby’s Mom lives with us which is great. We should take care of our families but sometimes I want to hide from both of them!

 

[Winterbells]

I completely understand why some think he's guilty of rape but not murder and it's a question that I've mulled over in my head.
But can I ask, why, if you think he's guilty of rape, did he go back to the park after 2.5 hours?
It's unusual for rapists to go back to the victim or back to the scene of the crime.
So maybe I have some kind of mental 'block' regarding reasons for this, but does anyone who believes he's innocent of murder have any theories as to why he went back?

BTW I think he's guilty on both counts.
JMO

That's a good question. I'm not sure that the people who think he can't be found guilty of murder believe he's innocent of murder, but rather that there isn't any/enough compelling evidence to justify finding him guilty of that crime.
I imagine murderers return to the crime scene more often than rapists do.

 

[Winterbells]

I am assuming it was a part of the trial that was not reported. I am not sure how many girls live in the house but I imagine there would be tensions from time to time. It is hard to live with people and not have differences. My hubby’s Mom lives with us which is great. We should take care of our families but sometimes I want to hide from both of them!

I think there was mention in the defence summing up of Libby falling out with a housemate and another one having moved out?

 

[JosieJo]

She said 'only' because he lied.

Nobody would ever go to prison if we couldn't convict them because they lied.

Yes ...my point was that the prosecution relies heavily on his lies in this particular case

 

[Newthoughts]

Yes ...my point was that the prosecution relies heavily on his lies in this particular case

And DNA and CCTV and witnesses

 

[JusticeDT]

Yes ...my point was that the prosecution relies heavily on his lies in this particular case

I dont think the prosecution is relying heavily on his lies personally

 

[Dotta]

I have noticed this as well. We say floor for interiors as well. I have used floor rather than ground in my post so folks knew what I meant.

I noticed it while reading Shane Mays thread on WS. I even checked the dictionary as English is a foreign language for me. Floor=indoors for me. It must be local usage as "tenfoot" I guess.

 

[Steve2021]

I was surprised (and concerned) the prosecution didn't offer more in the way of witnesses, and in the brevity of their closing speech. But if I was PR unless Mr Saxby had told me I was bound to get off, which I find unlikely knowing how rightly cautious barristers are, I think I'd be well disappointed as to how little he'd said in my defence.

 

[Newthoughts]

I am assuming it was a part of the trial that was not reported. I am not sure how many girls live in the house but I imagine there would be tensions from time to time. It is hard to live with people and not have differences. My hubby’s Mom lives with us which is great. We should take care of our families but sometimes I want to hide from both of them!

I don't think there's a student house in existence that didn't experience tensions from time to time. You start off the best of mates and by the end of the year you know exactly how many grains of coffee are in your jar in case someone steals some. And by the next year you're best mates again

 

[JusticeDT]

I don't think there's a student house in existence that didn't experience tensions from time to time. You start off the best of mates and by the end of the year you know exactly how many grains of coffee are in your jar in case someone steals some. And by the next year you're best mates again

This is so true. We had 5 girls in our house and there was always tensions! Same as when you live with siblings.

 

[Steve2021]

You wouldn't want to be SA or the Claremont witnesses would you. They must loathe PR as much as we do, probably even more as they are so local. Yet they know if they were mistaken (and it sounds like one or other of them was) and he gets off it is going to be because of their evidence he does.

 

[Steve2021]

Newthoughts said....If I'd had to defend the creep I'd have bulls@@@@@d along the lines of PR didn't realise what effect it was having, he was mortified etc rather than diminishing what his victims went thru. Still be a lie but better than that

Can't disagree with that. We've not heard anything suggesting PR feels remotely bad about anything he did or the fact that Libby is dead. As someone said, he seems completely detached. I don't expect him to incriminate himself or apologise for something he didn't do but it is disturbing if he really doesn't care.

 

[Jarvis1969]

It’s difficult not to look further into the psyche of PR. think a great deal about his behaviour is ‘unusual’, surreal almost, very emotionally detached. Actions such as not internet searching for Libby’s disappearance in the days afterwards or roaming (predatory on) the streets again hours after he attacked her do not, I think, imply his innocence, rather adds to the level of detachment, cold planning and harm intended.

I fully appreciate the different points of view on the possibility of him not being guilty of murder, and agree the timing is tight, but I still think a man of that psychological disposition and physical ability/agility is able to rape and kill, and dispose of Libby (pains me to write it) in minutes. Also transfer her to the river.

It’s hard not to write this without sharing an experience I am currently subjected to. Albeit on a very low level, I have just recently reported a man who my partner and I hired to clean our gutters before Christmas. Very well recommended firm, good reviews, two colleagues sent to us who were very polite and pleasant, waved to my children etc. I thought nothing more of it until Christmas Eve when I received an anonymous WhatsApp message wishing me a happy Christmas. Then another one an hour later saying hi again, then another one with an emoji with the tongue sticking out. Two hours later he sent a photo of himself in bed. I did not respond to any of the next 14 messages sent over the next 2 weeks. Albeit ‘harmless’ ‘hello hun’ messages, (as a QC like Saxby would have it) but they were relentless. And intimidating. I do not know this man. A man I’ve never met before or said more than a few words to when he was at my home doing the job we’d paid him to do. I also got 5 prank calls from him (I presume it was him) of breathing down the phone then hanging up. My point is, some men out there, some women, cross boundaries. And are clearly not put off by no response. I felt scared that he’d been in our house, used the toilet (cringe) looked at my bedroom, looked at my children, and actively sought to get my phone number from his colleague/a file. He was not at all deterred by me asking to stop messaging either, in fact to this day I can still see he hadn’t actually read it. As if to still hold control. Very strange, worrying. I was very upset about it all and felt worried to go out. He’d clearly looked at my social media too judging by some of his messages. His firm were horrified after I called them about it. I’ve reported him to the police. They can’t do much other than give me a case reference. Even my partner said they can’t do anything unless he “ramps it up”. I don’t want him to ramp it up!!! He should be locked up now!!! God knows how many other women he is/has harassed.

Sorry, rant over. But that sort of behaviour and ‘entitlement’ all starts somewhere. No coincidence he’s in employment up a ladder where he can look into windows. No coincidence at all Libby is found dead after meeting PR. He had already conducted serious crimes. You cannot normalise this behaviour. My partner had me nursing our youngest and rocking our eldest to sleep and saw little action for a while but he did not disappear into the streets at night for hours on end, terrorise other women, masturbate on streets, open other people’s windows, or steal items from their homes. MOO

That’s horrific and very intimidating for you, what is wrong with people who think its ok to do this type of thing. I hope you get it sorted out, take care

 

[JosieJo]

I dont think the prosecution is relying heavily on his lies personally

I really do think its a big part of their case ..you only have to look at the amount of time the prosecution spent on going through them ..i think evidence in its purest form is slim...I think the biggest part of the prosecution case was his lies and previous convictions...an extraordinary amount of time was spent on them

The only actual evidence they had was cctv of him around her and her getting into his car

The DNA and SAs statement....all of which could as easily be down to his perverted pass times and or rape ... not necessarily murder

 

[JosieJo]

Regarding the girls in a house and tensions totally agree ...so many Fallings out and drama ...im not sure the frequency of it is the point though...more wether it would have an effect on a person who suffers with certain types of mental health problems

Not that I think suicide was anyway what happened here