UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[Mommysleuth11]

I think everything mentioned today has been discussed, but just not reported before today. We didn’t hear lots of the agreed facts for example as they won’t have been read out, but shared with the jury beforehand.

In terms of the agreed facts, although they weren't reported in the media, I'm pretty certain they do have to be read out into the record in court, for the sake of completeness, this is usually done by the prosecution. I am by no means a legal brain though so happy to be corrected by anyone who knows more.

 

[Newthoughts]

I'd buy that if he had actually been running, as in running for exercise but it seems he wasn't.
My point is that it doesn't seem to be on the way back from anywhere.

It does look like an enclosed park. No access to work by the looks of it.

It was minus 5. Even with the extra light afforded by snow it was dark and I'd imagine quite scary.

Who goes running in the dark without their head torch? I go running and in winter we all abandon the park, light ourselves up with head torches and chest torches and run under street lamps. My husband, who loves trail runs, moves to the streets. And, as PR said in version 1 - there are the university grounds to run in.

The police didn't ask him to come forward. They'd have gone thru every possible bit of CCTV. And he'd have surely noticed Libby walking around screaming and gone to the police.

I'd be 99.9% certain it was PR

 

[LastSeenWearing]

That'd be my view. If it's not I'd be seriously worrying there is a killer on the loose, and given the scream timings possibly another girl went in the river that night as well as Libby, and I'd damn well want the police to have been investigating that. If they're not and if the defence haven't made a real big deal of it I'd think that's because they know or believe it's him.

I can't believe why more wasn't done to find this man to question him if he had seen anything when the screams were heard as a witness if he was not PR. They put out CCTV requests of the 4 people seen in Croda CCTV asking them to come forward as witnesses. I can only think he did not come forward or both defence and prosecution are quite sure it is PR.

I'm wondering if anyone can come up with a credible reason why a man would be walking through the playing fields after midnight on a freezing January night. I can't see any way that it could be a short cut home from the pub or a friend's house, or anything like that. But locals may know different.
If not, then it was 99.9% it was PR.

 

[Newthoughts]

Re could it be someone else walking through the park.

I am very local to ORPF and I think it is unlikely but not impossible. It isn't really a cut through. You could have come in right at the other end of the playing fields and walked through or cut through from coming over Sutton Road bridge and using the river track as a short cut and coming into the park that way. You would have to be super familiar with that route though to want to do it in the dark on a snowy, icy night- but people do.

Another local poster has mentioned that this is a hotspot for drug dealing (although that's not my bag so I wasn't aware) so there is a possibility people are using the park late at night and coming in from all angles for that kind of activity. This would also make sense why if it was someone else, they didn't come forward to the police to identify themselves.

All tenuous and highly unlikely but not impossible it could have been someone else.

Re the drug dealing - I'd be surprised if any dealer or buyer would risk that particular location at that time. Too quiet, too risky, too difficult to escape from. Not really the place to meet the criminal fraternity think somebody much, much earlier. Long before this trial pointed that out

 

[Ruthbullock]

It does look like an enclosed park. No access to work by the looks of it.

It was minus 5. Even with the extra light afforded by snow it was dark and I'd imagine quite scary.

Who goes running in the dark without their head torch? I go running and in winter we all abandon the park, light ourselves up with head torches and chest torches and run under street lamps. My husband, who loves trail runs, moves to the streets. And, as PR said in version 1 - there are the university grounds to run in.

The police didn't ask him to come forward. They'd have gone thru every possible bit of CCTV. And he'd have surely noticed Libby walking around screaming and gone to the police.

I'd be 99.9% certain it was PR

No one runs with a head torch around here, and our local parks and the countryside are still busy after dark, a lot quieter after midnight, but still the odd person walking or running around. There’s no streetlights either, but your eyes quickly adjust unless it’s a really dark overcast night.

 

[JusticeDT]

I really do think its a big part of their case ..you only have to look at the amount of time the prosecution spent on going through them ..i think evidence in its purest form is slim...I think the biggest part of the prosecution case was his lies and previous convictions...an extraordinary amount of time was spent on them

The only actual evidence they had was cctv of him around her and her getting into his car

The DNA and SAs statement....all of which could as easily be down to his perverted pass times and or rape ... not necessarily murder

The only reason an extraordinary amount of time was spent on the lies was because an extraordinary amount of lies were told and takes some time to go through the various versions.

 

[Cherwell]

The police didn't ask him to come forward. They'd have gone thru every possible bit of CCTV. And he'd have surely noticed Libby walking around screaming and gone to the police.

I can't believe why more wasn't done to find this man to question him if he had seen anything when the screams were heard as a witness if he was not PR. They put out CCTV requests of the 4 people seen in Croda CCTV asking them to come forward as witnesses. I can only think he did not come forward or both defence and prosecution are quite sure it is PR.

The police did ask for witnesses more than once, but I'm not sure what more they could have done. It's a different matter when people are seen on CCTV like the Croda footage. But some people won't respond to police appeals because they are afraid to get involved. I can understand why an unidentified man wouldn't want to put himself in the frame.

However it does seem highly unlikely that the individual seen by SA wasn't PR.

 

[tigerowl]

It does look like an enclosed park. No access to work by the looks of it.

It was minus 5. Even with the extra light afforded by snow it was dark and I'd imagine quite scary.

Who goes running in the dark without their head torch? I go running and in winter we all abandon the park, light ourselves up with head torches and chest torches and run under street lamps. My husband, who loves trail runs, moves to the streets. And, as PR said in version 1 - there are the university grounds to run in.

The police didn't ask him to come forward. They'd have gone thru every possible bit of CCTV. And he'd have surely noticed Libby walking around screaming and gone to the police.

I'd be 99.9% certain it was PR

It is not an enclosed park. It is a series of playing fields that many streets back on to. There are locked official gates but there are multiple points of access. You can get in any time through the small gates at Oak Road, from the river track at Sutton Bridge and from Oak Road coming in from Clough Road. I think there are other points you can get in around Riversdale and Etherington.

 

[Cherwell]

It is not an enclosed park. It is a series of playing fields that many streets back on to. There are locked official gates but there are multiple points of access. You can get in any time through the small gates at Oak Road, from the river track at Sutton Bridge and from Oak Road coming in from Clough Road. I think there are other points you can get in around Riversdale and Etherington.

Oh, I realise that. I never thought it was enclosed. But it doesn't seem like an obvious through-route for anyone, at least the part we're concerned with.

 

[tigerowl]

It isn't. It could be using the river track. If it was summer I would consider that fairly likely. In winter totally unlikely.

 

[porkypies]

I'm wondering if anyone can come up with a credible reason why a man would be walking through the playing fields after midnight on a freezing January night. I can't see any way that it could be a short cut home from the pub or a friend's house, or anything like that. But locals may know different.
If not, then it was 99.9% it was PR.

Why would someone have to come up with a credible reason if minding their own business?

 

[Cherwell]

Why would someone have to come up with a credible reason if minding their own business?

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[porkypies]

I don't understand what you mean.

I just mean that I think it's a public open bit of green space and woodland by the river, and accessible to the public 24/7 there are too many reasons to list here, why someone might be in there any time, day or night, and they don't need to be going somewhere or coming back from somewhere, just a little different from perhaps the majority of people, and not afraid of the cold or dark, but in a big town or city, there will be such residents, totally innocent of all wrongdoing and harmless.

 

[Happygirlie2003]

Can anyone hazard a guess or know professionally why neither prosecution or defence teams haven’t got psychology reports for PR? I thought this would be part of the procedure but that’s purely guesswork I’m no legal eagle by any means just find it strange why Libby’s character re mental health has been dug into so much but not PRs

 

[Cherwell]

I just mean that I think it's a public open bit of green space and woodland by the river, and accessible to the public 24/7 there are too many reasons to list here, why someone might be in there any time, day or night, and they don't need to be going somewhere or coming back from somewhere, just a little different from perhaps the majority of people, and not afraid of the cold or dark, but in a big town or city, there will be such residents, totally innocent of all wrongdoing and harmless.

Well, of course that's true, but we're not talking about "any time, day or night". We are talking about a specific night at a specific time, a freezing cold night. So I wonder what some of those reasons might be. Don't feel you have to list them all.

 

[Cherwell]

Can anyone hazard a guess or know professionally why neither prosecution or defence teams haven’t got psychology reports for PR? I thought this would be part of the procedure but that’s purely guesswork I’m no legal eagle by any means just find it strange why Libby’s character re mental health has been dug into so much but not PRs

It would be a matter for the defence if they were trying to establish that he was unfit to stand trial, or if he was pleading diminished responsibility or similar. But that's not the case.

 

[tigerowl]

Hull is a reasonable sized city and you will find people out and about at all hours of the day and night, Just living life. not every single person conforms to a standard 9/5 job, tea at 6 followed by telly and bed at 10.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

But didn't we all agree that PR is a psychopath? It is like to expect a stone to shed tears.

Nope.

IMO he's a dirty little pervert who raped and murdered a vulnerable young girl.

 

[tedtink]

Can anyone hazard a guess or know professionally why neither prosecution or defence teams haven’t got psychology reports for PR? I thought this would be part of the procedure but that’s purely guesswork I’m no legal eagle by any means just find it strange why Libby’s character re mental health has been dug into so much but not PRs

Medical notes are private/ strictly confidential for a living person.
GDPR doesn't apply to the deceased.

 

[Skigh]

Nope.

IMO he's a dirty little pervert who raped and murdered a vulnerable young girl.

And mentally scarred a number of other young women.