UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[VicBlazey]

The verdict is always the time I most think about the family..even if they get the best result possible i think I'd be lost ...at least running up to the trial there is something to focus on

Absolutely. And even if he gets the strictest sentence, the bottom line is that their little girl is still not going to come home again, and nothing can ever make up for that

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Thanks for today's updates @jamjim, have appreciated all your hard work during the trial.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Thanks @jamjim for your updates today and throughout the trial, it has been very useful to be able to follow it all in one place, and with posters being able to add their own thoughts along the way.

 

[CrimeAway]

The judge is right offering the option of manslaughter now, as the prosecution would have already agreed to it as an alternative. So in this case they knew they didn't have evidence solid enough for a definite return of guilty of murder.

"The prosecution should decide in advance of a murder trial whether or not an alternative count of manslaughter should be added to the indictment."

Homicide: Murder and Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service

I don't think that the judge is "offering" the option of the jury returning a verdict on a charge of manslaughter. That option was always there according to the in your post (see "Alternative Counts". IMO, the judge was informing (or clarifying to) the jury that a verdict of manslaughter was possible.

"The prosecution SHOULD decide in advance of a murder trial whether or not an alternative count of manslaughter should be added to the indictment"
It says should, not MUST!

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance
/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

 

[Mommysleuth11]

I am pleased the Judge added the manslaughter charge, for me I would be confident returning a guilty verdict on that charge whereas not so on the Murder charge.

I'm wondering if she has added it because it would mean aggravating factors in both charges thus enable her to impose a longer overall sentence, as opposed to the jury thinking murder not proven and him only been found guilty on the rape charge?

As much as I have tested and questioned the overall evidence and whether it can indeed prove Murder, as I have said I DO ultimately believe him overall responsible for Libbys fate, I do think he is a very dangerous character and I hope he is punished according.

Above all, I hope justice IS achieved for Libby and for her family and loved ones, to give them some sense of closure and hopefully in time the ability to move on with their lives and live with fond memories of Libbys life and love rather than all of this terror of how it ended.

Edited to correct my mistake.

 

[Winterbells]

Not all victims are found early enough to be sure how they died.

You can only ever be sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Weigh up the balance of all the evidence look the limited number of alternatives and try see which is the most likely.

I think this case is actually far more clear cut than I thought.

Irrespective of whether or not it is clear how someone died, evidence can show who killed them.

 

[tedtink]

DBM Mistake

 

[marshy73]

Refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh​

 

[jamjim]

Refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh​

I've got Twitter/Google alerts galore. Every time my phone pings tomorrow my heart rate will increase.

 

[Tortoise]

Sheffield Crown Court 1 T20207204
Pawel Piotr Relowicz
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 10:30 - 16:46

https://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Sheffield-Crown-Court.php

 

[marshy73]

Adjourned till tomorrow

 

[jamjim]

Even then, I'll still be refreshing here/HDM page every 5 seconds

 

[VicBlazey]

It's gonna be a long night....

 

[marshy73]

Even then, I'll still be refreshing here/HDM page every 5 seconds

Me too
Not at work tomorrow either

 

[Miss_French]

I don't think that the judge is "offering" the option of the jury returning a verdict on a charge of manslaughter. That option was always there according to the in your post (see "Alternative Counts". IMO, the judge was informing (or clarifying to) the jury that a verdict of manslaughter was possible.

"The prosecution SHOULD decide in advance of a murder trial whether or not an alternative count of manslaughter should be added to the indictment"
It says should, not MUST!

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance
/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

I was referring to the timing, and not the fact that it would've been put forward once deliberations had started.

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Her poor parents having to wait another day. I hope the verdict will be in early tomorrow morning.

 

[porkypies]

No. He wasn't under oath until he was in court.

What about Perverting the course of Justice then? he knew she was missing next day and did not go to police despite knowing how drunk she was and having had sex with her not far from a river at night and leaving her there, even if his last version of events were true, he knew he could be viewed as the last person to see her alive, then lied to police from the start, and then, for seven weeks he knew he had raped her and (says he) left her there (which is what is attracting his manslaughter charge) but continued to lie to the police? Only after his semen was found inside her did he admit to anything other than 'helping' her.

 

[Newthoughts]

It is such a tragedy that with all the evidence the LE had (back in 2016 through to 2019) of an unidentified sexual predator (PR); the witness statements, the physical descriptions (an extremely good likeness one housemate drew in IMO), the neighbours knowledge, and even local hearsay, they could not tie it all together UNTIL a young woman died. That’s where I fully empathise with the frustration of knowing you’ve reported something awful that you’ve been subjected to, and yet sadly often is the case that nothing is/can be done in the ‘early days’ of harassment.

A genuine question (and I do believe that the LE acted swiftly and worked tirelessly to bring this case to court, as well as clearly providing wonderful support to Libby’s parents during an unimaginable time), but does anyone think there may/should be an inquiry into why PR was not already off the streets? Jmo.

I think there is a really strong case for some kind of national inquiry into why these crimes aren't taken seriously enough. PR only got 8.5 years because the judge took the step of imposing the sentences to run consecutively rather than concurrently. I think the maximum single sentence he could have given was 3 years!

There seem to be far too many cases where women are ending up dead because these things aren't seen as serious. Emotional impacts and fear aren't taken into account at all

It's heartbreaking because I think he could have been caught but in the polices eyes they were just minor crimes and I seriously think that mindset has to change so I agree with you

 

[Skigh]

Amended poll to include manslaughter

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/amended-poll-uk-libby-squire.558397/

Just bumping Tortoise's poll for people who might have missed it.

 

[JosieJo]

Hopefully they are debating the murder/manslaughter...cant see anyone going not guilty