UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[Newthoughts]

And then it came out after that one of them had mouthed off to a police officer in the past about ramming an officer over. Should have been murder I think that one.

Yes it should. I think the defence against murder was they didn't know they were towing him so they didn't know they were killing him. Awful

 

[Tortoise]

What about Perverting the course of Justice then? he knew she was missing next day and did not go to police despite knowing how drunk she was and having had sex with her not far from a river at night and leaving her there, even if his last version of events were true, he knew he could be viewed as the last person to see her alive, then lied to police from the start, and then, for seven weeks he knew he had raped her and (says he) left her there (which is what is attracting his manslaughter charge) but continued to lie to the police? Only after his semen was found inside her did he admit to anything other than 'helping' her.

I think that charge is usually used for 3rd parties hiding knowledge of crimes committed by others.

He should be dealt with under sentencing for aggravating and mitigating circumstances.

 

[Newthoughts]

Absolutely. And even if he gets the strictest sentence, the bottom line is that their little girl is still not going to come home again, and nothing can ever make up for that

I think feeling that they've got justice for her must be important. It won't bring her back but they would want her rapist and murderer to face something. The mother of Stephen Lawrence pursued justice for her son for years. If it were me I'd feel I'd want that

 

[Newthoughts]

Thanks to @jimjam for all the updates and to everyone else who has contributed in any way over the past 2 years. Libbys case brought me here and it's been a long wait for this day, I can't imagine how tough it must of been on her family and it's them I'm thinking of today.
On another note. I think we should maybe not get too hung up on him necessarily getting a low end sentence for this (if it's guilty of manslaughter as opposed to murder). The judge in his previous charges certainly didn't think he was deserving of one so I doubt this one does either. I know of a guy who got 20 years for rape. Two rapes, both on the same night, but to seperate instances. No one died and he still got 20 years.

I just think about what Libby's lost. No graduation, no first job, no weddings, travel, first home, children. She was 21 so in theory he's robbed her of 60 years of living.

 

[Newthoughts]

I’m sorry to sound morbid, but I wonder what did actually happen re the rape? He had jeans on so at least buttons/zip to undo. Just musing did it happen in oak road or the park.....what were the events in those few minutes from Haworth st to oak road?
I know it’s an odd thing to focus on but I always think this when reading about murder investigations-what was happening in those few minutes?

I would guess in the park. Quick and brutal IMO

 

[Newthoughts]

Irrespective of whether or not it is clear how someone died, evidence can show who killed them.

Can it? In 2002 Milly Dowler was raped and murdered. Her 'remains' were found after 6 months. No cause of death could be ascertained at all. Levi Bellfield was charged and convicted of her murder in 2010 just on circumstantial evidence. He admitted her rape in 2016.

 

[Dotta]

No - unfortunately - it will all run concurrently.

So, the only figure that is going to count is the highest one, which will be for the manslaughter charge.
He might get 16 - 18 years, which will commute to 9.

But why are the sentences commuted? I really don't get it.

 

[Vera_dci]

What about Perverting the course of Justice then? he knew she was missing next day and did not go to police despite knowing how drunk she was and having had sex with her not far from a river at night and leaving her there, even if his last version of events were true, he knew he could be viewed as the last person to see her alive, then lied to police from the start, and then, for seven weeks he knew he had raped her and (says he) left her there (which is what is attracting his manslaughter charge) but continued to lie to the police? Only after his semen was found inside her did he admit to anything other than 'helping' her.

I've wondered if an extra charge will come about after he admitted in court repeatedly lying to the police.

 

[Alyce]

Thanks to @jimjam for all the updates and to everyone else who has contributed in any way over the past 2 years. Libbys case brought me here and it's been a long wait for this day, I can't imagine how tough it must of been on her family and it's them I'm thinking of today.
On another note. I think we should maybe not get too hung up on him necessarily getting a low end sentence for this (if it's guilty of manslaughter as opposed to murder). The judge in his previous charges certainly didn't think he was deserving of one so I doubt this one does either. I know of a guy who got 20 years for rape. Two rapes, both on the same night, but to seperate instances. No one died and he still got 20 years.

did he serve 20 years ?

 

[Cherwell]

But why are the sentences commuted? I really don't get it.

It's not automatic, Dotta. It means that at a certain point in their sentence, a prisoner is allowed to apply for parole. But that doesn't mean it will be granted (although often it is). If the offender is thought to be still a danger to the public, parole is refused.

 

[porkypies]

Thanks for today's updates @jamjim, have appreciated all your hard work during the trial.

Yes, thank you very much @jamjim

 

[Cherwell]

I’m not saying the man would report it at the time, but surely he’d report it as soon as he found out there had been an attack in the park that night?
Anyway, it’s a moot point for me as I doubt this other man even exists.

Just returning to this point.
No, I definitely think many men would avoid owning up to being on the spot, in case they were suspected of the crime themselves. The thinking would be it was safer not to get involved. Especially if they didn't think they'd seen anything useful. Plus there are a lot of people who don't trust the police and wouldn't go to them in any circumstances.

 

[Joolz1975]

Ah yes where they 'accidentally' dragged him along the road not noticing. They got 16 and 13 years.

And then it came out after that one of them had mouthed off to a police officer in the past about ramming an officer over. Should have been murder I think that one.

did he serve 20 years ?

We had one in our town. 4 charges of rape (same night) he got life but with a minimum of 10 years (which is up in the not too distant future) I know they can keep him in longer but from local chat he has been a model prisoner and will probably get released when he has served his minimum.

Not a long sentence at all really (I had actually forgot about the life term till I looked at it again recently but I doubt he will serve much past his minimum).

 

[Cherwell]

Not a long sentence at all really (I had actually forgot about the life term till I looked at it again recently but I doubt he will serve much past his minimum).

Life is life though - if he ever offends again he will be straight back inside.

 

[Joolz1975]

Life is life though - if he ever offends again he will be straight back inside.

Yes that is definitely a positive! He will hopefully be watched very closely. I dont get how you go from nothing to 4 counts of rape (plus attempted rape as well) all in ine night.

 

[Winterbells]

Can it? In 2002 Milly Dowler was raped and murdered. Her 'remains' were found after 6 months. No cause of death could be ascertained at all. Levi Bellfield was charged and convicted of her murder in 2010 just on circumstantial evidence. He admitted her rape in 2016.

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. There's no 'just' about it. The word 'evidence' is the key.

 

[Newthoughts]

Life is life though - if he ever offends again he will be straight back inside.

If he ever offends again it means somebody else's life has been destroyed by rape tho

 

[Newthoughts]

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. There's no 'just' about it. The word 'evidence' is the key.

There is far more than circumstantial in Libby's case yet lots of people wouldn't convict.

 

[Cherwell]

If he ever offends again it means somebody else's life has been destroyed by rape tho

It doesn't have to be rape. I think it can be any offence.

 

[Steve2021]

out in 10 years or less

Yes he'll probably be out in his early 30s. All we can hope is the other inmates make it a living hell for him.