UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

[Newthoughts]

Likely yes ..but its not impossible she could stay silent from the point of running away not alert her direction to her attacker ...difficult to say

But if she was running she would clearly be alive and there would be clear and unambiguous signs of drowning. Plus I think it would be quite difficult to run deeply enough into a river to not get stuck on the bank. I guess we'll hear more when the expert gives evidence

 

[jamjim]

16:51
'She went up to her gate but then walked away' - driver

Mr Moreton told the court when he pulled up his taxi outside Libby's house in Wellesley Avenue a group of men were across the road that “looked as if they were waiting for a taxi.”

He said Libby then got out of the taxi. He said: “She slid off the seat, onto the floor and pulled herself across the floor, unsteady on her feet, and walked to the gate of the property. I saw she had dirt or bruising on her thigh.

“I heard a clatter or something – it sounded like a bin being knocked over and that’s what I assumed it was. I saw the girl walk around the back of the taxi towards the group of lads and I looked again and heard them laughing and saw them pointing. I didn’t know what at. I assumed it was something to do with the girl.

“I got out the car and asked where she’d gone and they said Beverley Road.”

Mr Moreton said he then got back into his taxi and back to work.

'Libby killer's 2.30am sex act in Newland Avenue' - trial updates

 

[HollyHunter9]

I think he had been planning on attacking someone in those fields for quite sometime, checking it out with a drone, visiting it several times. He was clearly planning something. I think possibly his original plan had been to hide in the bushes in the dark until the clubs emptied and drunk students were walking home and he could ambush someone but the opportunity with Libby presented itself before his plan could come to fruition.

Regarding the short timeline, I imagine once she realised he was in no way helping her she would've probably tried to run from him. Perhaps she stumbled and ended up near the river when he caught up with her. (Him saying he was going for a run is a lie to cover up if anyone saw him running)... This sounds horrible and I'm not sure how to word it differently but i think in his heightened 'arousal' it would not have taken very long for him to climax (especially if this was his ultimate fantasy) and if she was already close to the river it wouldn't of taken long to then get her in there if she was unconscious or sadly gone by this point.

I also find it very interesting that in his statement to police he said after "helping libby" that he went home and had a bath I bet he was really shocked when they found his DNA despite her being in the water so long.

I do believe he intended to seriously harm someone that night and poor Libby was just unfortunate to cross his path. I just hope the defence don't try to use her past suicide attempts as some kind of defense. I'm guessing that is why the prosecution have presented a statement from her mum to say she was scared of the dark and the water so this wouldn't be a usual way for her to do it if that were the case. ALL MOO

 

[Alyce]

I always like to know this info .....

the jury of five men and seven women



Butcher 'stalked' Libby Squires before 'intercepting' her, court hears | Daily Mail Online

 

[Vermont24]

But if she was running she would clearly be alive and there would be clear and unambiguous signs of drowning. Plus I think it would be quite difficult to run deeply enough into a river to not get stuck on the bank. I guess we'll hear more when the expert gives evidence

If running, you'd end up in thick reeds and mud first. In the area around the boathouse, where the police searches were concentrated, there isn't a gradual bank or even a 'drop'. It would take effort to enter the water. I've never bought the theory that she did this accidentally.

 

[JosieJo]

But if she was running she would clearly be alive and there would be clear and unambiguous signs of drowning. Plus I think it would be quite difficult to run deeply enough into a river to not get stuck on the bank. I guess we'll hear more when the expert gives evidence

Its the pathologist stating he cannot rule out that she drowned that I need clarity on ..thats worrying

Obviously whatever happened that night he was responsible for her death ..its interesting an alternative of rape and manslaughter not been mentioned...but as some have said ..the lawyer may allow murder on this particular type of harm

 

[JosieJo]

I always like to know this info .....

the jury of five men and seven women



Butcher 'stalked' Libby Squires before 'intercepting' her, court hears | Daily Mail Online

Yes and me .. these numbers thankfully not in his favour

 

[JosieJo]

If running, you'd end up in thick reeds and mud first. In the area around the boathouse, where the police searches were concentrated, there isn't a gradual bank or even a 'drop'. It would take effort to enter the water. I've never bought the theory that she did this accidentally.

Hopefully the prosecution will show this to the Jury

 

[Skigh]

Yes and me .. these numbers thankfully not in his favour

I actually think men will be equally repulsed by his sexually deviant behaviour.

 

[Winterbells]

I'm wondering about the cctv footage the police released with the running man, the cyclist and the couple walking along the road beside the playing fields. I can't remember the timings, but I remember us discussing whether the man who seemed to run out of the park and then slow down could have been PR and whether the two people walking together could have been PR and Libby. Also... is the suggestion that PR drove to the playing fields with Libby, then took her on foot to a location where he raped her? (I assume you can't drive a car into the playing fields?). His tale of doing a wee whilst Libby was feeling sick makes me wonder if he's trying to cover evidence of his semen at that spot (I believe there's semen in urine, right?). And lastly - why would a masturbator use a condom? I'm confused about the rationale.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

16:51
'She went up to her gate but then walked away' - driver

Mr Moreton told the court when he pulled up his taxi outside Libby's house in Wellesley Avenue a group of men were across the road that “looked as if they were waiting for a taxi.”

He said Libby then got out of the taxi. He said: “She slid off the seat, onto the floor and pulled herself across the floor, unsteady on her feet, and walked to the gate of the property. I saw she had dirt or bruising on her thigh.

“I heard a clatter or something – it sounded like a bin being knocked over and that’s what I assumed it was. I saw the girl walk around the back of the taxi towards the group of lads and I looked again and heard them laughing and saw them pointing. I didn’t know what at. I assumed it was something to do with the girl.

“I got out the car and asked where she’d gone and they said Beverley Road.”

Mr Moreton said he then got back into his taxi and back to work.

'Libby killer's 2.30am sex act in Newland Avenue' - trial updates

Damn re dirt or bruising to thigh. Early days tho so that will be clarified no doubt.

 

[jamjim]

Taxi driver last witness for day
The trial has now finished for the day and will start again at 10.30 on Thursday morning when our live coverage will continue.

'Libby killer's 2.30am sex act in Newland Avenue' - trial updates

 

[JosieJo]

I actually think men will be equally repulsed by his sexually deviant behaviour.

Yes I'd agree in this case

 

[Skigh]

Thanks very much for your updates. It has been a very full day.
I am pleased they have actually evidence of rape. I feared that it would be inconclusive.

 

[Newthoughts]

Its the pathologist stating he cannot rule out that she drowned that I need clarity on ..thats worrying

Obviously whatever happened that night he was responsible for her death ..its interesting an alternative of rape and manslaughter not been mentioned...but as some have said ..the lawyer may allow murder on this particular type of harm

I think sometimes things come down to the way scientists use language compared with general usage of the rest of us - they always build in caution. They always talk in terms of typical or not typical or in numbers or probabilities. Science will never rule out anything just in case but can state it's highly unlikely

I would say that when I scientist says the signs were not typical of drowning they would mean highly, highly unlikely that she died by falling in the water of her own volition - fully conscious and breathing. So as they said earlier - dead or dying at that point.

I guess more will emerge when he is called to give evidence.

 

[Stumpyaura]

If running, you'd end up in thick reeds and mud first. In the area around the boathouse, where the police searches were concentrated, there isn't a gradual bank or even a 'drop'. It would take effort to enter the water. I've never bought the theory that she did this accidentally.

If that's the case then it doesn't sound that easy for him to get Libby into the water. Surely there would be some evidence on his clothes or shoes that he had been near the water. Unless when he went back he found somewhere with a drop, which you would assume there would be some evidence of moving Libby. Interesting to see what forensics they have from the areas.

 

[Newthoughts]

Taxi driver last witness for day
The trial has now finished for the day and will start again at 10.30 on Thursday morning when our live coverage will continue.

'Libby killer's 2.30am sex act in Newland Avenue' - trial updates

Thank you for your updates

 

[Winterbells]

He said: “She was very angry about some lad or something, she did say about somebody ‘he’s a f****** c***.’

“We spoke through the intercom system. She didn’t say who this man was, I didn’t have a clue. I assumed it was a boyfriend or an ex-boyfriend.

I suspect it was the security guy at the club who'd refused her entry.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Thanks for all the updates today and yesterday @jamjim

 

[Winterbells]

Thanks for all the updates today and yesterday @jamjim

Yes, thanks so much @jamjim - much appreciated!