UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

[Winterbells]

"I never thought i would have her for the rest of our lives".
A mother's instincts are so powerful.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

I was just reading over some articles and found this, a little more info re those scratches.

Libby 'fought back as Pawel Relowicz raped her' murder trial hears

Hopeful the link works.

Interesting. Was Libby left-handed? The scratches were on the right hand side of his face and body.

His story of him stopping the car and telling her to get out and her scratching him don't correlate either as his left side would have been nearer to her. Did he rape her earlier in the grounds of the endsleigh centre and then did she scratch him as she was being carried somewhere over the fields (maybe towards the river)? It would be interesting to know exactly what the cctv yeast factory picked up in terms of how they arrived together

 

[Winterbells]

The physical evidence of rape is there along with his new claim that it happened in the park ....

Sorry, I'm confused. What has he said happened in the park? I thought he's only said he drove her there, parked, had a pee, Libby felt sick and then she walked away.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Sorry, I'm confused. What has he said happened in the park? I thought he's only said he drove her there, parked, had a pee, Libby felt sick and then she walked away.

It relates to this from the trial information on the Hull Daily Mail site

'Libby was in no condition to give consent to sex' - prosecutor
Final comments from Mr Wright who says the prosecution understand that Relowicz will now admit that he had sexual intercourse with Libby after he drove her to Oak Road Playing Fields.

 

[Winterbells]

It relates to this from the trial information on the Hull Daily Mail site

'Libby was in no condition to give consent to sex' - prosecutor
Final comments from Mr Wright who says the prosecution understand that Relowicz will now admit that he had sexual intercourse with Libby after he drove her to Oak Road Playing Fields.

Ah. I see. I missed that bit. Thank you.

 

[Winterbells]

His story of him stopping the car and telling her to get out and her scratching him don't correlate either as his left side would have been nearer to her. Did he rape her earlier in the grounds of the endsleigh centre and then did she scratch him as she was being carried somewhere over the fields (maybe towards the river)? It would be interesting to know exactly what the cctv yeast factory picked up in terms of how they arrived together

Yes. I'm also interested to know what went on in the grounds of the Endsleigh Centre. They were there for quite a while, I seem to remember. And then she got into his car and from the spider cam cctv we watched and the description from the prosecution, it does seem that she wasn't getting into it willingly. PW walked her right to the passenger door, seemingly guiding her into his vehicle. Libby appeared to pull back. Perhaps her watch fell off because the clasp was already weak, or perhaps because of him gripping her around her wrist. Maybe that's why she hesitated ('oh no, my watch!). Then it seemed he more or less shoved or lifted her onto the passenger seat. She bounced as she landed. Then he chucked something onto the back seat. It looked as heavy as a small bag of some sort (I don't think Libby had a bag with her, so who knows what that was). I'm trying to work out why a woman would get into the car of a man who'd just raped her. The only explanation I can think of is terror.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Yes. I'm also interested to know what went on in the grounds of the Endsleigh Centre. They were there for quite a while, I seem to remember. And then she got into his car and from the spider cam cctv we watched and the description from the prosecution, it does seem that she wasn't getting into it willingly. PW walked her right to the passenger door, seemingly guiding her into his vehicle. Libby appeared to pull back. Perhaps her watch fell off because the clasp was already weak, or perhaps because of him gripping her around her wrist. Maybe that's why she hesitated ('oh no, my watch!). Then it seemed he more or less shoved or lifted her onto the passenger seat. She bounced as she landed. Then he chucked something onto the back seat. It looked as heavy as a small bag of some sort (I don't think Libby had a bag with her, so who knows what that was). I'm trying to work out why a woman would get into the car of a man who'd just raped her. The only explanation I can think of is terror.

I never thought she got in the car willingly from the cctv footage.

It was just a thought regarding the Endsleigh Centre grounds as I can't get my head around the timescales at the playing fields

 

[Winterbells]

I never thought she got in the car willingly from the cctv footage.

It was just a thought regarding the Endsleigh Centre grounds as I can't get my head around the timescales at the playing fields

Me neither. Although, if he dragged Libby (screaming) near to the river before committing his atrocities, he wouldn't have had far to carry her in order to dispose of her body into the river and run back to his car.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Me neither. Although, if he dragged Libby (screaming) near to the river before committing his atrocities, he wouldn't have had far to carry her in order to dispose of her body into the river and run back to his car.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe he did not necessarily commit his atrocities closer to his car. Maybe he dragged/carried her as she was kicking and screaming.

 

[HollyHunter9]

I wonder if she ran from him at some point (screaming as she was running) and ended up fairly close to the river before he caught up with her. We know she was quite intoxicated but sometimes even if you are quite drunk a situation can occur that would sober you up rather quickly! I think the fight/flight would kick in and you would run like hell! Also, if Libby was not a long time local of Hull she may not of known the layout of the fields/park to know what she direction she was running in either.

 

[Newthoughts]

But - she could have died from hypothermia, possibly.

My fear is the defence will use that but that pathologist has already said that she didn't show post mortem signs of having died of hypothermia.

IMO they seem to be suggesting asphyxiation as the most credible cause but because they cannot definitively rule out the other two my guess is the defence would go for hypothermia as the only cause where he wouldn't have direct agency.

All just my opinion tho as we don't know enough yet.

 

[Newthoughts]

Sorry, I'm confused. What has he said happened in the park? I thought he's only said he drove her there, parked, had a pee, Libby felt sick and then she walked away.

At the very end of the prosecution - after they had revealed the DNA evidence - the prosecutor said PR had now changed his story to admit to sexual activity in the park.

Having a wee was interesting as that was one of his defences for semen being found on a students door in his previous convictions. He said he'd just had sex with his wife and had only urinated on their door. So I wonder if he was expecting similar on the ground somewhere?

 

[Niner]

Friday, January 15th:
*Trial continues (Day 3) (@ 10:30am UK) – UK – Liberty “Libby” Anna Squire (21) (last seen Jan. 31, 2019 outside Welly Club in Hull; found Mar. 20, 2019 from Grimsby Docks in the Humber Estuary) - *Pawel P. Relowicz (24/now 25) arrested (Feb. 6, 2019 on suspicion of abduction) officially charged (Oct. 30, 2019) with murder & rape. No plea entered yet. Not guilty plea entered on Jan. 12, 2021.
Trial began on Jan. 12, 2021. Trial will be in Sheffield. Richard Wright QC will lead, Mr. Woolfall prosecutor. Oliver Saxby QC for defense. Trial expected to last 6 weeks. Jury: 5 men & 7 women.
Was originally charged (18/3/19 & 10/5/19) with 5 counts of burglary, 4 counts of voyeurism, 3 counts of outraging public decency & 1 count of receiving stolen goods. On Aug. 12, 2019 plead guilty to 9 charges including voyeurism (4 counts), outraging public decency (2 counts) & burglary (3 counts). Relowicz jailed for eight & a half years.
Trial Day 1-2 (12/1 - 13/1/21) reference post #417 here:
UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18
Jan. 14th Wednesday: Court about to begin. Judge is in the dock as is Relowicz. Oops! BREAKING: Trial will not sit today. Three jurors have been unable to make court today due to adverse weather after snow fell across South Yorkshire. Jurors have been told tomorrow they will be notified in good time if the situation is the same. Justice Lambert told them: “I’m sorry & have a safe journey home. Unless you hear anything on the contrary please return to court tomorrow.” Continues on 1/15/21.

 

[Newthoughts]

I'm Polish(but not from polish community-don't know what you mean by that?) I don't know him and my nationality has nothing to do with my views about what happened, I registered on this forum first for Grace Millane trial ,I always had interest in crime and court trials
Before this trial started I thought he killed Libby but this 7.5 mins sounds really too short to rape and kill someone so I'm not sure what actually happened there and I was wonder if anybody else have the same thoughts
I thought this forum is made for express our thoughts no just for agreeing constantly with others.
he may be guilty I don't know at the moment -base on evidence which is available for us- I am not convinced 100% he killed her. I may change my mind later when more evidence will be available

I think the area shown on the map might be more compact than it seems on just viewing it.

When I looked at the maps earlier on in this case when people were just looking at streets where he'd committed earlier crimes I assumed a much greater distance between locations and a longer journey time. But when I visited my child in Hull I was very surprised to find you could easily walk from Libby's bench to his house past about 90% of the sites of his convictions in less than 5 minutes. It really is a small studenty area.

I've also looked at the location of the yeast factory noted earlier by @HopeForGoodNews which picked him and Libby up and it's at the opposite side of both the park and river.

I've never been into that park but comparing it's size with the area I had seen coupled with the fact they were still within range of that CCTV makes me wonder how large a space it really is?

I also think his earlier visits meant he was prepared and knew exactly where to go. Add in he must have been full of adrenaline which speeds him up.

And of course the absence of any alternative explanation.

 

[jamjim]

09:26
Trial postponed for second day in a row
The trial has been postponed for a second day due to weather conditions in South Yorkshire. Snow is making it difficult for jurors to reach the court.

Libby Squire murder trial postponed for second day because of snow

 

[mrjitty]

My fear is the defence will use that but that pathologist has already said that she didn't show post mortem signs of having died of hypothermia.

IMO they seem to be suggesting asphyxiation as the most credible cause but because they cannot definitively rule out the other two my guess is the defence would go for hypothermia as the only cause where he wouldn't have direct agency.

All just my opinion tho as we don't know enough yet.

But if it was hypothermia - how did she end up in the river?

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Thanks @jamjim . Sad for her family to have another delay.

 

[Sooty]

11:56
Car arrives at Oak Road close to River Hull
Instead of turning left from Beverley Road to Wellesley Avenue, where Libby lived, Mr Wright says Relowicz can be seen on CCTV footage driving down Oak Road to Oak Road Playing Fields.

The jury is now being shown a map and an aerial photograph of the playing fields. It is 354.9 metres from Oak Road to the River Hull across the playing fields.

Pawel Relowicz on trial for murder of Hull student Libby Squire

354.9 metres from oak road to the river. Over 700 metres there and back - presuming this refers to the most direct route. Is there a pathway? 354.9 metres guiding, dragging, fighting, carrying...... in the dark, in the snow, if a footpath may have been icy too - I know they will spend more time analysing this time frame and it become clearer but it really is very puzzling.

Another thought: I don’t think we can take anything he says for truth, especially where the rape took place.

 

[Newthoughts]

But if it was hypothermia - how did she end up in the river?

Exactly! If the timings are such an issue there is still the problem of her ending up in the river.

 

[Sooty]

Further to my last comment - I am thinking the fact that he returned to, one can assume, the scene/ where he left her and the time frame was 4 minutes - to go there and back to the car - it could be reasonable to assume on that 3rd occasion he took under 2 minutes to get to the ‘spot’ and under 2 minutes to get back to the car.

Again, it would have been dark etc which does hinder somewhat.

If it can be proved that the attack took place in the park (maybe this taking a wee has something to do with this too) then I think they are looking at it happening under 2 minutes into the park. It’s a better fit with the timings of 7 and a half minutes - it just seems to make more sense. There has to be a reason for this 3rd visit to the park. Hopefully he will give us some clues in his testimony.

unfortunately, it suggests that he did not put her in the river.

edited by me for clarity