UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

[Vermont24]

Does anyone remember where in Oak Park playing fields the police focussed their search on a particular bench? I've tried finding it via a Google search but no success.

Approximate location of benches marked here. We don't know exactly which one was focused on by forensics.

 

[Tortoise]

Very unlikely that CCTV from the opposite side of the river would pick up much of anything in the park. There's a treeline along the bank, which is fairly dense even in winter, and the bank of the river is reached via a slope up from the park. I imagine that any footage shows activity nearby the river only.

This is from the prosecution opening (post #206) -

The jury is being shown CCTV footage of when Relowicz allegedly returned back to his car – shown by the flashing of lights of the car being unlocked.

The time of this clip is 12.19am, around seven and a half minutes after it is claimed he arrived at Oak Road Playing Fields with Libby.

CCTV sited on a nearby yeast factory managed to capture Relowicz and Libby arriving and Relowicz leaving, Mr Wright said.

 

[Newthoughts]

The witness living by the park who actually woke up and heard the cries said they were loud, franctic and if I am correct they moved location until it all went quiet. Then few minutes later a man (presumably PR) emerged running from the woods out of park...

So that tells us that out of the 7min30sec that PR spent in the park before PR returning to his vehicle, Libby must have been alive up till the last few minutes before he returns to car...also that she was not stationary in one spot but rather moved/run/being carried whilst screaming

Few scenarios are possible...

He carried her towards river whilst she screamed (he most probably scouted suitable locations in advance so he would know where he wannted them to go) then raped her and left her for dead or asfyxiated her in the proces then either threw her in the river or returned on his later visit to do that (the body would be placed very close to river so he would manage in 4minutes)

Or he raped her in the park and she run away from him whilst screaming..then he left her behind and run out of park and returned to his car...Libby would then fell into river herself (not totally excluded) or she dies from hypotermia or trips and falls unconscious and then dies of hypotermia...again patologist did not exclude that completely but it is more unlikely given post mortem did not show signs of dying from hypothermia. Also if he just raped her and then left her in the park why would he wait to run away only after the screams went quiet??? Why not just run away as soon as he can...to me he knows why she stopped screaming. Only after that he emerges from the park (probably knowing that she is not going to alert anyone anymore).

So what makes her stop screaming in that park few minutes before PR emerges from the woods? Whatever it was he was still there when it happened...

Im sorry im thinking out loud as I type

I agree that he was still there when the screaming stopped.

I don't think someone (especially someone drunk and hypothermic and a recent victim of an attack) would be alert enough to run from him (he was fit and strong she was very vulnerable), fall into a river and then suddenly fail to exhibit the typical reflexes of a fully conscious, alert, drowning person. But I'm not an expert and therefore that is only my opinion until we hear more from the experts

So I go with your first scenario.

 

[Marulinka]

Yeah, I'd very much echo what @Newthoughts said here.

Thank you. I didnt see Newthoughts post earlier. Just got to read it

 

[Newthoughts]

One other thing I can't get my head around...after what he did to Libby in the park, he then not only goes and masturbates in the street, but leaves the condom?! I know he has left 'calling cards' before, but he has now possibly just committed the most heinous of crimes, and then leaves a condom full of his DNA in the middle of a street in Hull. From the way it has been described, it seems the condom was found actually on the street by a resident, and not disposed of down a drain/grate. Didn't use a condom with Libby but uses one to masturbate into and leaves it in the street? It's such a dichotomy that he has tried to deny everything, but at the same time leaves evidence like that so brazenly. I will be interested to hear any psychological profiling that has been done on him.

My opinion - and it's only an opinion - is that he really didn't expect evidence on Libby to be found and had been getting away with leaving DNA calling cards for years.

He probably didn't think a used condom would be picked up. In normal circumstances it wouldn't. Tho why he used it is a mystery.

He clearly has some forensic nous - his explanation for his semen on the students door is that he wee'd there after having sex with his wife is ingenious. Its interesting that he claimed to have had a wee in the park and well so I wonder was he expecting something similar there?

I guess he doesn't know much about anatomy and assumed all evidence of the rape would be removed by the water.

But it is all really weird.

 

[martenwearer]

Is there a possibility that he left her on the river bank, and the water had risen, pulling her body into the flow of the river? I remember we discussed the river levels but it was so long ago I can't remember!

There would then be no trace of trampled on bushes, hearing a splash, drag marks etc.?

 

[Vera_dci]

IMO I think she realised she was in danger when the car stopped and it wasn't outside her home. I think she got out of the car and ran but given her intoxication and previous injuries to her knees I think he was able to catch up to her with ease. It had been quite some time since her last drink could she have sobered up a little?. I dont think there is enough time for him to walk her into the park the only logical explanation I can think of is that she ran of her own accord into the park.

 

[Vermont24]

This is from the prosecution opening (post #206) -

The jury is being shown CCTV footage of when Relowicz allegedly returned back to his car – shown by the flashing of lights of the car being unlocked.

The time of this clip is 12.19am, around seven and a half minutes after it is claimed he arrived at Oak Road Playing Fields with Libby.

CCTV sited on a nearby yeast factory managed to capture Relowicz and Libby arriving and Relowicz leaving, Mr Wright said.

Perhaps the CCTV has a sightline towards the entrance of the park then, but anything close to the bank rather than immediately on it would likely not be seen because of the gradient.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

IMO I think she realised she was in danger when the car stopped and it wasn't outside her home. I think she got out of the car and ran but given her intoxication and previous injuries to her knees I think he was able to catch up to her with ease. It had been quite some time since her last drink could she have sobered up a little?. I dont think there is enough time for him to walk her into the park the only logical explanation I can think of is that she ran of her own accord into the park.

This actually makes the most sense of any explanation so far......to me anyway. Will be interesting to hear what exactly the CCTV that picked them up arriving captured?

 

[Sooty]

IMO I think she realised she was in danger when the car stopped and it wasn't outside her home. I think she got out of the car and ran but given her intoxication and previous injuries to her knees I think he was able to catch up to her with ease. It had been quite some time since her last drink could she have sobered up a little?. I dont think there is enough time for him to walk her into the park the only logical explanation I can think of is that she ran of her own accord into the park.

this would be indicated hopefully by the cctv from the yeast factory that shows the two of them arriving at the park?

 

[Sooty]

Source is Wikipedia:

Most autopsy findings (of suspected drowning victims) relate to asphyxia and are not specific to drowning. The signs of drowning are degraded by decomposition.

edited by me to provide clarity

 

[Sooty]

She could have run off and ended up in the river hence the screams.
Why wouldn’t that be a possibility?

playing the devils advocate for debate

 

[Vera_dci]

@Sooty we like a good debate on here. Would CPS allow a murder charge though if it was so unclear about how she ended up in the river?

 

[Marulinka]

She could have run off and ended up in the river hence the screams.
Why wouldn’t that be a possibility?

playing the devils advocate for debate

It definitely is a possibility. Post mortem is casting doubts on death by drowning or hypothermia though...that is the main reason why we are looking for alternative explanations. Hopefully we will get more details as we go.

 

[Ktboo]

She could have run off and ended up in the river hence the screams.
Why wouldn’t that be a possibility?

playing the devils advocate for debate

Good point. Although I’m thinking of she was screaming in the river they’d be an indication of water in her lungs although I’m not 100% sure if that would happen.

 

[Vera_dci]

Does anyone know how soon the park was searched after libby was reported missing?

 

[Sooty]

@Vera_dci I wouldn’t have thought they would - there must be some further evidence. However, there appears to be so much doubt that the defence can throw at this case.

 

[Vera_dci]

@Sooty the doubt is a major concern. If the majority of us on here are questioning the times then it's likely the jury will too.

 

[Sooty]

@Ktboo it appears that drowning is very difficult to be conclusive about in a post mortem - particularly after any length of time I.e. not a freshly drowned body. I had no idea, and assumed it was an obvious thing to prove, but just doing some research and it would seem it’s not obvious at all.

 

[HollyHunter9]

IMO I think she realised she was in danger when the car stopped and it wasn't outside her home. I think she got out of the car and ran but given her intoxication and previous injuries to her knees I think he was able to catch up to her with ease. It had been quite some time since her last drink could she have sobered up a little?. I dont think there is enough time for him to walk her into the park the only logical explanation I can think of is that she ran of her own accord into the park.

Yes I agree! I think by this time she had been outside for a while and had perhaps started to sober up,then him stopping at the park instead of her home set alarm bells ringing so ran but because she was still drunk, cold etc and him being sober, stronger, pumped on adrenaline caught up to her easily. Perhaps the CCTV from the yeast factory will show a time stamp of them both by the rivers edge to prove that for them to have got there so quickly means they both must've been running. I've been pretty intoxicated in my time,especially as a teen. On one occasion a fight broke out in a club; i have never moved so fast to get out of the way and it sobered me up instantly!