UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

[mrjitty]

Absolutely. I'm suprised the defence didn't admit rape and deny murder.

I think admitting rape would put him right in the gun for murder

They will try to argue around the rape aspect, knowing it's a loser - but it's important for the accused to maintain that he didn't believe it was rape

 

[mrjitty]

But the prosecution can argue that his first statement demonstrated he knew how drunk she was and therefore he can't argue consensual sex later

Yes - I remember there was a lot of discussion about all this back in the day, as some posters didn't believe that police necessarily had libby definitely in his car

They knew all along that he took her in the car, and of course he (foolishly) came up with a story to explain it. They have known he was lying all along - but they needed the body and the DNA

 

[porkypies]

meant to link 2 posts together above.

 

[Newthoughts]

He's made a few references to drugs, did he give her or force her to take something he's afraid will show up?

Thanks for the updates @jamjim.

I think may actually be the cold

I've just checked the symptoms of mild to moderate hypothermia and they fit everything that PR and some of the others have said. They're very like being drugged.

So shivering - which he's said.

Confusion - she was setting off in the wrong direction and getting lost, couldn't understand what was happening to her. Asking for her mum who was miles away.

Mumbling, slurred speech, poor communication - the darts players couldn't understand her.

Becoming combatative - telling people to f@#$ off.

Loss of coordination - falling over, staggering.

Plus becoming hypoglycemic as body uses up glucose supplies to try and keep warm.

It was minus 5 that night. She was dressed to go out. Bare legs, t shirt, leather jacket. Poor kid must have been perished

So I think everything that's been said so far is consistent with her bring hypothermic as well as drunk.

 

[mrjitty]

Drugs is a red herring IMO

She was drinking in a flat with mates. Who would have spiked her drink?

Honestly at that age I saw kids get that drunk easily.

 

[Cherwell]

17:12
Relowicz told police to 'check the cameras'
Relowicz told police: “I went home. I don’t know the time you will be able to check on the cameras. It was maybe 10pm or 11pm. I think there are even cameras near the shop you will be able to tell where I drive there.”
Relowicz said he sat with his wife and had a bath afterwards.
He said nothing happened after that.
Trial updates as chilling CCTV 'shows Pawel Relowicz meeting Libby'

Where on earth is he getting that time from? That's an hour or two before he encountered Libby.

 

[JusticeDT]

I think may actually be the cold

I've just checked the symptoms of mild to moderate hypothermia and they fit everything that PR and some of the others have said. They're very like being drugged.

So shivering - which he's said.

Confusion - she was setting off in the wrong direction and getting lost, couldn't understand what was happening to her. Asking for her mum who was miles away.

Mumbling, slurred speech, poor communication - the darts players couldn't understand her.

Becoming combatative - telling people to f@#$ off.

Loss of coordination - falling over, staggering.

Plus becoming hypoglycemic as body uses up glucose supplies to try and keep warm.

It was minus 5 that night. She was dressed to go out. Bare legs, t shirt, leather jacket. Poor kid must have been perished

So I think everything that's been said so far is consistent with her bring hypothermic as well as drunk.

I agree. They will no doubt get an expert to confirm in their opinion she looked and acted like it.

 

[Cherwell]

Drugs is a red herring IMO
She was drinking in a flat with mates. Who would have spiked her drink?
Honestly at that age I saw kids get that drunk easily.

Agree, we've been told she had drunk a whole bottle of wine followed by some vodka. The bottle of wine wouldn't necessarily get you legless, not for anyone used to it, but once you start laying spirits on top, things can go out of focus pretty quickly.

 

[Newthoughts]

Drugs is a red herring IMO

She was drinking in a flat with mates. Who would have spiked her drink?

Honestly at that age I saw kids get that drunk easily.

Agree. It makes her sound worse I guess.

I could get that drunk very quickly - on very little.

Her friend said looked like it hit her when she got in the fresh air

My guess is drunk and gradually becoming hypothermic.

 

[Newthoughts]

Agree, we've been told she had drunk a whole bottle of wine followed by some vodka. The bottle of wine wouldn't necessarily get you legless, not for anyone used to it, but once you start laying spirits on top, things can go out of focus pretty quickly.

It would me. A couple if glasses hits me.

 

[Vera_dci]

Especially wine if drank fast. It was said she was drinking from the bottle. I find wine a creeper too. One minute you can feel sober and then it hits you at once.

 

[JusticeDT]

I do think the defence will use drugs to try and prove she died by drowning or hypothermia and no pathology evidence because of intoxication. I'm sure experts will say intoxication can hide the evidence of drowning and or hypothermia. I think they will put the defence that she committed suicide or wanted to harm herself by putting herself in river and died of drowning or hypothermia.

 

[mrjitty]

Especially at her age

 

[Vera_dci]

I'm not going to rule out drugs at this point though until there's confirmation from the toxicology report. The way she was acting could also be from ketamine IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I do think the defence will use drugs to try and prove she died by drowning or hypothermia and no pathology evidence because of intoxication. I'm sure experts will say intoxication can hide the evidence of drowning and or hypothermia. I think they will put the defence that she committed suicide or wanted to harm herself by putting herself in river and died of drowning or hypothermia.

I guess but the trouble is it is wild speculation - we have no evidence of drugs/suicide

 

[JusticeDT]

It would me. A couple if glasses hits me.

Me too and at her she I didn't know that.

 

[JusticeDT]

I guess but the trouble is it is wild speculation - we have no evidence of drugs/suicide

What other defence or other version of facts can they put forward as a reasonable explanation. I think the opening statements and mother and boyfriends statements suggest there is more to come on this point.

 

[JusticeDT]

I guess but the trouble is it is wild speculation - we have no evidence of drugs/suicide

I forgot to add the prosecution have already brought up 3 suicide attempts and it makes me think defence are bringing it up

 

[mrjitty]

What other defence or other version of facts can they put forward as a reasonable explanation. I think the opening statements and mother abd boyfriends statements suggest there is more to come on this point.

Maybe but apart from "evidence" being led in the form of wild speculation from counsel, how will the defence produce any actual evidence that Libby put herself in the river?

 

[Newthoughts]

I do think the defence will use drugs to try and prove she died by drowning or hypothermia and no pathology evidence because of intoxication. I'm sure experts will say intoxication can hide the evidence of drowning and or hypothermia. I think they will put the defence that she committed suicide or wanted to harm herself by putting herself in river and died of drowning or hypothermia.

But I think it takes quite a long time to die of hypothermia unless she was thrown into a freezing cold river - she was only out from 11.30 to 12.17 at most. Plus getting into PRs warm car would have started to warm her up.

Hypothermia would be my defence but it doesn't answer why she ended up in the river.

It's going to be a battle of experts opinions if that's right