UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

[JusticeDT]

They don't have to prove anything of course.

But contentions from counsel require an evidential foundation - otherwise they are mere speculation. So in practice, an evidential onus arises on the defence if they wish to convince the jury of a version - otherwise it is mere unsupported conjecture from counsel.

Absolutely, I agree but with no real defence (in my opinion) I suspect they will clutch at any straws they can and when you consider the content of the family witness statements during opening statements, this sadly suggests to me the defence are planning to use her mental health. I very much hope I am wrong but if defence are arguing their client didn't put her in the river then i suspect they will put forward an alternative suggestion. As pointed out by someone else earlier in this thread she was discharged from the mental health team and have friends and family saying she was in a good place so I suspect it will be easily rebuffed but I still think it will be raised. Fingers crossed I'm wrong.

 

[JusticeDT]

They don't have to prove anything of course.

But contentions from counsel require an evidential foundation - otherwise they are mere speculation. So in practice, an evidential onus arises on the defence if they wish to convince the jury of a version - otherwise it is mere unsupported conjecture from counsel.

Absolutely, I agree but with no real defence (in my opinion) I suspect they will clutch at any straws they can and when you consider the content of the family witness statements during opening statements, this sadly suggests to me the defence are planning to use her mental health. I very much hope I am wrong but if defence are arguing their client didn't put her in the river then i suspect they will put forward an alternative suggestion. As pointed out early she was discharged from the mental health team and have friends and family saying she was in a good place so I suspect it will be easily rebuffed but I still think it will be raised. Fingers crossed I'm wrong.

 

[wilkela]

I think they will not suggest she committed suicide.
I think they will insist he left her on the field alive (maybe unconscious ) and she fell in to water by accident trying find way out in darkness . and tbf it could be possible
we see

 

[Cherwell]

These screams fit the timing of the CCTV tho and the running man. It becomes harder to untie those two events

This guy is going to be a very important witness.

 

[JusticeDT]

This guy is going to be a very important witness.

Bet he will be on the stand a while with both sides.

 

[jenspired]

Jurors heard she had researched methods for taking her own life, and had previously had suicidal thoughts which included "throwing herself in a river".

Libby Squire murder trial: Student 'seen sobbing in street'

Apologies if this has already been posted - I hadn't seen anything from the trial reporting mentioning the above - I thought she was scared of water

 

[JusticeDT]

Jurors heard she had researched methods for taking her own life, and had previously had suicidal thoughts which included "throwing herself in a river".

Libby Squire murder trial: Student 'seen sobbing in street'

Apologies if this has already been posted - I hadn't seen anything from the trial reporting mentioning the above - I thought she was scared of water

I think her mothers witness statement said she was scared of water especially moving water.

 

[Alyce]

I think they will not suggest she committed suicide.
I think they will insist he left her on the field alive (maybe unconscious ) and she fell in to water by accident trying find way out in darkness . and tbf it could be possible
we see

But in his last statement ( so far of course, who knows if there will be more versions presented ) he said he left her on Beresford Avenue. It would seem a bit odd, if she was intending to walk home - which is what PR claims she told him -that she would leave the Avenues full of houses and take herself into a pitch black park and walk some 400 metres through darkness to the river.

 

[JosieJo]

Jurors heard she had researched methods for taking her own life, and had previously had suicidal thoughts which included "throwing herself in a river".

Libby Squire murder trial: Student 'seen sobbing in street'

Apologies if this has already been posted - I hadn't seen anything from the trial reporting mentioning the above - I thought she was scared of water

I hadn't seen this ..must have missed it ..I really didn't think the defence would go down the mental health route ..I thought accident...now I'm not sure

 

[wilkela]

But in his last statement ( so far of course, who knows if there will be more versions presented ) he said he left her on Beresford Avenue. It would seem a bit odd, if she was intending to walk home - which is what PR claims she told him -that she would leave the Avenues full of houses and take herself into a pitch black park and walk some 400 metres through darkness to the river.

I think he will change this statement in near future

 

[JusticeDT]

She was also scared of darkness- according to her mother but she didn't have problem hanging around middle of the night instead go home straight away .
it is no argument" she was scared of the water" if she fell into river by accident (because she was drunk and disorientated )

I think a fear of the dark and being out at night are different. Someone might be scared of the dark and would hate to be in a pitch black room but have no issues being out at night if there are street lamps and they can see for example.

 

[DiploRed]

I think a fear of the dark and being out at night are different. Someone might be scared of the dark and would hate to be in a pitch black room but have no issues being out at night if there are street lamps and they can see for example.

yeah, there is a huge difference between wandering Beverley Road and deciding to wander about in the Oak Road Playing fields. The last time I was there I’m pretty sure it had no lighting whatsoever and is pretty much the definition of creepy

 

[Tortoise]

I don't have a subscription to Telegraph but linking for anyone who does. It has a cctv image I don't think we've seen yet.

CCTV shows final movements of Libby Squire before she was 'raped and murdered by stranger'

 

[JusticeDT]

I hadn't seen this ..must have missed it ..I really didn't think the defence would go down the mental health route ..I thought accident...now I'm not sure

I think they will go down any and all roads they can to plant enough of a seed of doubt amongst jury so give a few plausible alternative scenarios and I think mental health will be one of them. I think her family and friends have been prepared for this or as prepared as they could ever be, hence witness statements.

 

[JusticeDT]

yeah, there is a huge difference between wandering Beverley Road and deciding to wander about in the Oak Road Playing fields. The last time I was there I’m pretty sure it had no lighting whatsoever and is pretty much the definition of creepy

That's the thing. I'd happily walk down a lit residential street at night but I would never go into that kind of park when it's dark whether it's night time or just late afternoon in winter.

 

[Vera_dci]

So even if he didn't kill her am i right in thinking he is still culpable because he took her to the park to commit an unlawful act ( rape) .

"Death was caused in the course of committing or escaping from a serious offence in which the offender played more than a minor role"

Unlawful act manslaughter – Sentencing

 

[JusticeDT]

So even if he didn't kill her am i right in thinking he is still culpable because he took her to the park to commit an unlawful act ( rape) .

"Death was caused in the course of committing or escaping from a serious offence in which the offender played more than a minor role"

Unlawful act manslaughter – Sentencing

That's unlawful act manslaughter not murder. This guide is pretty good:

Homicide: Murder and Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[martenwearer]

New cctv footage which we have not seen yet:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/libby-squire-pawel-relowicz-cctv-4906542

Relowicz arriving at Tesco in Hall Road
Relowicz in Newland Avenue
Relowicz making his first visit to Oak Road Playing Fields

 

[LucyRocket]

PR seems to have added a further event to whatever is suspected to have happened in that 7+ minutes between them both arriving and him leaving the park alone?
And the kneeling and weeing here do appear to be an important detail to him.

Maybe on the third trip he masturbated. In one of his previous offences where semen was found, didn't he say it was from him urinating?

 

[Pokerface87]

Hi Guys, long time lurker here but would like to put my 2 cents in being someone who suffers mental health issues. In the past I’ve been paralytically drunk and suicide has crossed my mind out of seemingly nowhere. This is especially true when I’ve began to sober up and hate myself for the nights events or what I’ve perceived them as. This is just IMO based on past experiences.