Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #2

[Rosegold68]

Wondering if her house had been burgled and she had disturbed someone

She may have made it home even though there’s no further cctv of her.

 

[Kaykedi]

Some speculation with regards to her house being found a mess which may indicate why she was classed as high risk from the start. Like something untoward possibly occured?

She was reported missing around midnight the night she disapeared. If this was out of character i dont understand why they would wait so long to report. Esp given the circumstances with regards to meeting back up with her daughter for tea.

Also... from the still CCTV of her when she was missing, some posts that appeared on fb to find her had some comments from her friends stating was it even her? She looked different somewhat. Not just the one either.
From then... Some people are speculating she was known for wearing wigs? Im not sure these are facts just what i have read.

I still dont understand why stills were used to find Lindsay but footage of the bin boy was shown as a footage as opposed to stills

You have made some excellent points

 

[Smccat]

They can tell if it’s powered down now because of battery as opposed to being switched off
It’s ever evolving technology

That’s good!

 

[Emmalt]

Wondering if her house had been burgled and she had disturbed someone

She may have made it home even though there’s no further cctv of her.

She had left her house so wasnt returning home. No CCTV records show her coming back home

 

[Angleterre]

Yes, it does sound like it wasn't well managed. Well meaning folk, without proper training can cause more harm than good and put themselves at risk in the process.

I suspect that community involvement will be de-briefed by LE in due course and hopefully lessons will be learned.

It’s a balancing act as Whitehall says
It’s primary consideration is preserving life and once it’s known that a crime has been committed, and it’s a recovery operation as opposed to a locating a MISPER then that’s when evidence needs to be preserved
Personally, because of the way in which Police designated it as urgent from the start, which leads me to believe that they had more information than we were told, I would have thought that they would have had cordons in place much sooner to preserve any evidence but hindsight is a wonderful thing and unless you are ‘in it’ so to speak, you cannot say why certain actions were taken or not taken and at which point in time. When you are the SIO of a high profile case and everything is happening in fast real time, it’s like spinning plates keeping everything in check and couple that with the SIO will have been constantly midered by the Chief Constables staff officer for updates and the police press office for updates and ultimately the prime ministers office for updates. It’s truly ridiculous nowadays how much is asked of you from higher up , especially the government getting involved in cases and then Police chiefs having to deliver that info to them so then you as the SIO are midered constantly, instead of being free to investigate.
I had a scene of a double Murder once and I was phoned up around 5 times in the first half hour of being told about the incident and whilst travelling to the incident and once I got there , I was being pressed for the victims names and date of birth and how many suspects and who they were etc all to inform David Cameron’s office at the time so that they could put out their message about it being an isolated incident and that the public need not increase their fear of crime. Etc. I didn’t even know the details myself at that point!
It was ridiculous - you need to be left to get on with your job in high pressure situations like this. The SIO would be existing on about 4/5 hours sleep per night at this stage .

 

[Whitehall 1212]

IMO I doubt they will find the phone, it’s probably had the SIM card removed and sold on

IMEI number for the LB's phone may be available to the mobile phone provider. I believe it would then be possible to flag up if a particular handset is active again, even it the SIM card has been removed or changed.

 

[Little Nicki]

There was a member on the Libby Squire thread who fully understood phone /gps. IIRC phones send a goodbye ping when either powered off due to flat battery or are physically switched off and it’s not possible to tell which it was.

Lindsay may have rush charged the phone to get a bit of battery to see her to where ever she was headed to and thought she’d charge it more there. Perhaps a friends house? The friend wouldn’t necessarily have known she was coming. Maybe Lindsay was just going to see if he/she happened to be in and call for a quick chat /brew before getting on with dinner. The reason I mention this is I always take my phone whether it’s dead or very little battery or not. On low power mode with very little battery my own phone can last hours. Just my thoughts. MOO

ETA - on low power mode with no use my phone can last hours. Obviously not if I’m using it every 2 mins

I was one of the people discussing this on Libbys thread and I said then that from what I have read/learned, it IS possible to tell if a phone is switched off manually or battery died because when it is properly powered off it sends a 'goodbye' signal. Which I don't believe it does if the battery just dies.

 

[Ched]

... significant cctv evidence, allegedly went out to attach a female

 

[Smccat]

A little far fetched maybe, but what if he had been on the opposite side of the road, saw her leaving the house, spotted her turning off either up the side or behind the pub and took the opportunity to attack her and take her keys...

Would he have the audacity to boldly enter the house using the keys?

But then I would have expected the first thing he would have taken was her purse/cash...

Just my MOO of course

A little maybe, but all possible I suppose. The only reason I started to think that is that I personally get a feel from the images of Lindsay that she is only intending to nip out. The way she's dressed, no purse also support etc. Also the clothing she had on a "shirt" and leggings isn't something that really goes together with a rab jacket. All seems a bit rushed to me, but then who am I to say what people should and shouldn't put together as an outfit

 

[Smccat]

I was one of the people discussing this on Libbys thread and I said then that from what I have read/learned, it IS possible to tell if a phone is switched off manually or battery died because when it is properly powered off it sends a 'goodbye' signal. Which I don't believe it does if the battery just dies.

Huge apologies Nikki - totally recalled that wrong. I did intend to go back and verify but I was in a rush this morning. Thanks for clarifying on this.

 

[GoldenFlower]

... significant cctv evidence, allegedly went out to attach a female

I sincerely hope they have more than cctv footage of him coming and going!

 

[Sarahlou]

I sincerely hope they have more than cctv footage of him coming and going!

I would think they have DNA evidence. I doubt he managed to avoid leaving any. Hopefully they have anyway!

 

[Bluetooth]

Does anyone know if the defence counsel I.e. the lawyer for the suspect would have been presented with the evidence yet?

Reckon they may consider changing the plea once they review.

Think the 96hour delay would have been to get the DNA results /process CCTV evidence.

 

[CharlestonGal]

... significant cctv evidence, allegedly went out to attach a female

I am simply aghast that Lindsay went for a simple stroll in broad daylight and randomly encountered this monster. She must have been so terrified. It's unbearable to think about. IMO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Does anyone know if the defence counsel I.e. the lawyer for the suspect would have been presented with the evidence yet?

Reckon they may consider changing the plea once they review.

Think the 96hour delay would have been to get the DNA results /process CCTV evidence.

Assuming that the suspect or his Appropriate Adult requested a solicitor to represent the suspect, whilst in police custody, then as much evidence as the police were happy to disclose would have been revealed to the solicitor. Enough needs to be disclosed for the solicitor to advise their client accordingly and certain key evidence would have been put to the suspect during the interviews, which the solicitor would have been present at. Not all the evidence would necessarily be revealed at the custody stage.

There will be an initial Court file prepared by the police and CPS with information supporting the decision to charge. The defence will have a copy.

In due course the CPS will need to disclose to the defence all the evidence they have, together with any evidence they have which undermines the Crowns case or supports the defence. The defence will then respond with the basis of their defence, assuming there is a 'not guilty' plea. There is a lot of toing and froing of paperwork between Police and the CPS and the CPS and the Defence.

The extensions to detention would have been requested on the basis that there was not enough evidence to meet the CPS threshold for a charge. Once the threshold is reached, then any interview must be halted and the suspect charged pending a first Court appearance.

I am sure Angleterre will add to this and correct any errors.

 

[Ncjm1991]

You have made some excellent points

If dont live with this family member when would you think something isn't right obviously when LB hadn't turned up for tea at 6pm then you'd try the ringing around,, LB phone was dead,, and as time has gone by then you start to worry,, its not often police class someone as missing person unless 24hours,, so i feel that evening to be classed as missing person,, says it all must be as stated out of character,, and why LB was classed high risk from the start,, just my opinion

 

[Whitehall 1212]

If dont live with this family member when would you think something isn't right obviously when LB hadn't turned up for tea at 6pm then you'd try the ringing around,, LB phone was dead,, and as time has gone by then you start to worry,, its not often police class someone as missing person unless 24hours,, so i feel that evening to be classed as missing person,, says it all must be as stated out of character,, and why LB was classed high risk from the start,, just my opinion

Police reporting of missing persons is not so prescriptive as 24 hours before a report is taken. This is a hark back to days of old. The reporting, risk of threat/harm and the actions taken are subject to an risk/intelligence led assessment process to ensure there is quick, decisive and appropriate response if needed.

 

[Ncjm1991]

Police reporting of missing persons is not so prescriptive as 24 hours before a report is taken. This is a hark back to days of old. The reporting, risk of threat/harm and the actions taken are subject to an risk/intelligence led assessment process to ensure there is quick, decisive and appropriate response if needed.

I'm saying it was good of police to see it was out of character and LB was classed high risk from the start

 

[GoldenFlower]

What happens if he pleads guilty. Would he still have to attend Crown Court on the 25th Feb for sentencing or would that be brought forwards.

Would his confession statement be read out in court at that time?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I'm saying it was good of police to see it was out of character and LB was classed high risk from the start

I understood that you were giving the police due credit for their response. I just felt it would be useful to clarify that police assessment of and response to missing persons is given much greater priority than in the days of old.