Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[Tortoise]

Would be interested in going but I should imagine it would be full with press etc

press usually sits in the well of the court at its own bench.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Yes, I had that in mind.

Though it perhaps shows up flaws in the system.

Does anyone know if 'work commitments' is an acceptable reason for not attending jury service?

I understand that nobody can 'make you attend' if you simply don't want to do it

Work commitments are not a reason to be excused altho you can request one postponement, but you need to provide an explanation.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

On the contrary. I'd say that an 'unidentified man' seen loitering in the woods fits in with the defence's 'Hooded Man' story.

From what she said and how the defence barrister used it, at this stage she appears to have been a 'good witness for the defence'.
Assuming the 'V shaped trainers' can't be linked to the defendant,

Interesting how people interpret things differently. That didnt occur to me at all, but no doubt will be used that way by the defence.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Reposting with updated map just in case people don't revisit the previous message:

*Note - The times shown are CCTV times from Burnley Road (Lindsay) and Elmwood Close, and Peel Park Hotel (Zoe).

Some minutes can be added on according to the particular route taken (in the case of Lindsay)

What are we thinking? The same attacker? Any ideas as to the routes?

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Reposting with updated map just in case people don't revisit the previous message:

*Note - The times shown are CCTV times from Burnley Road (Lindsay) and Elmwood Close, and Peel Park Hotel (Zoe).

Some minutes can be added on according to the particular route taken (in the case of Lindsay)

What are we thinking? The same attacker? Any ideas as to the routes?

To me it's looking like the same person. An attacker on the prowl in attack mode.

The timings and locations are adding up.

The area where Zoe was potentially 'followed' (leaving the Coppice presumably somewhere in the car park/bowling green area) and when and where Lindsay came into a similar area . . . .

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Would be interested in going but I should imagine it would be full with press etc

I think the press have a 'separate gallery' . . . .?

 

[Jartykarate]

Has anyone’s views been changed by what they have heard today? Is it a public gallery the whole trial?

As someone mentioned, most of todays evidence has been more helpful to the defence, I don’t think you would need a “top lawyer” to pull holes in this case.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The interesting thing for me, is despite the evidence I still believe the defendant is guilty.

It come back to reasonable doubt tho. It's quite easy to make a comment on here, but I would not want to be in the jury.

ETA - today, that is. Let's see what else comes out. I think the judge's summing up will be critical too.

 

[Mumrahh]

I wouldn't like to be

The interesting thing for me, is despite the evidence I still believe the defendant is guilty.

It come back to reasonable doubt tho. It's quite easy to make a comment on here, but I would not want to be in the jury.

ETA - today, that is. Let's see what else comes out. I think the judge's summing up will be critical too.

I wouldn't like to be jury either... Nothing has pointed to him "actually" doing it. Any dna can be put down to him moving her (Its still doing my head in how dna was only on one glove, and why didn't he get rid of shoes with her clothes haha)
It would also be interesting to see where the police where looking on the day he moved the bin, and where fb search parties where looking.
The witnesses today haven't changed my mind really, the fact he went to the gym in scruffy clothes means nothing at all, I have seen guys in work stuff.
He was a scrap metal mover so would already of had some muscle from lugging it about. I am sure I read he was known for moving it about in a bin and had been seen to do this... (I may be wrong, I am off to see if I am now haha)

 

[JosieJo]

I find it worrying that there was no motive presented in the prosecution opening speech ...also that they openly admit they never found the crime scene
Also no hint at conclusive forensics or internet searches (yet)
I really hope that they have more than disposal evidence ...they have gone to a great deal of trouble to show this evidence when hes already admitted it
Ordinarily having such clear evidence of disposing and covering up would be enough ...but when an "impressionable" very young adult throws a massive spanner in the works such as his defence statement makes things very difficult

 

[Mind your biscuits]

What are the chances that a lad of 16 wouldn't have a phone on him? If he did it could incriminate him or exonerate him. Just musing.

 

[Rosegold68]

heres my thoughts on what may have happened

he's been put up to it. told by an older male (hooded man, older man with him at the gym) to man up, prove himself a man......to take someone and rob them/attack/rape? ....but i think initially, to rob.

it went wrong. they both restrained one killed her....by accident/too much force.....his task was then to complete it and dispose of her

sounds bloody ridiculous, cold and callous but i think there may have been someone egging him on

cultural reasons he's being vague whilst being truthful....i am interested to know why no crime scene discovered, and why he can't show police where or give an idea.

my thoughts on this will undoubtedly change once we hear more, but it does feel like poor Zoe had a lucky escape and he lost his nerve with her.

 

[sunflower22]

I find it worrying that there was no motive presented in the prosecution opening speech ...also that they openly admit they never found the crime scene
Also no hint at conclusive forensics or internet searches (yet)
I really hope that they have more than disposal evidence ...they have gone to a great deal of trouble to show this evidence when hes already admitted it
Ordinarily having such clear evidence of disposing and covering up would be enough ...but when an "impressionable" very young adult throws a massive spanner in the works such as his defence statement makes things very difficult[/QUOTE Has it been mentioned anywhere about his internet searches? I’m sure I heard/read that his internet search was “how to dispose of a body” could be wrong

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Does anyone know of any other murder trails where the defendant hasn't had to say one word?

 

[MusicalMonkey]

heres my thoughts on what may have happened

he's been put up to it. told by an older male (hooded man, older man with him at the gym) to man up, prove himself a man......to take someone and rob them/attack/rape? ....but i think initially, to rob.

it went wrong. they both restrained one killed her....by accident/too much force.....his task was then to complete it and dispose of her

sounds bloody ridiculous, cold and callous but i think there may have been someone egging him on

cultural reasons he's being vague whilst being truthful....i am interested to know why no crime scene discovered, and why he can't show police where or give an idea.

my thoughts on this will undoubtedly change once we hear more, but it does feel like poor Zoe had a lucky escape and he lost his nerve with her.

The question would be. Why hasn't there been any sightings of this other man?
How did he get on and off The Coppice?

I presume the investigators have been through extensive CCTV footage.

 

[sunflower22]

W

Does anyone know of any other murder trails where the defendant hasn't had to say one word?

would this usually happen at this stage in the trial?

 

[JosieJo]

Not read that myself ?

 

[JosieJo]

W

would this usually happen at this stage in the trial?

No not yet .. though I think its unlikely he will imo

 

[LancashireLad]

My opinion hasn’t changed today, guilty as sin in my book.

Admits being in the area before, during and after she’s gone missing and murdered. Admits moving and burying the body on his own.
Witness says just before Lindsay was last seen a male matching his description was chasing her round the coppice with her escaping just before Lindsay appears in the same vicinity.
History of attacking women.
Defence story of a random guy asking him to move a body is ridiculous.
I can see that’s there, as yet, is no direct evidence of him murdering her but the circumstantial evidence combined with the DNA is overwhelming.

Ask yourself how many walks have you been on and ended up bumping into someone you don’t know & can’t describe and agreeing to move a body for them? Nope me neither

JMO

 

[Jartykarate]

Does anyone know of any other murder trails where the defendant hasn't had to say one word?

I am not an expert but there is no compulsion for the defendant to give evidence, or speak in court as far as I am aware.