Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[Dcflag]

I can't believe that's the prosecution done.

 

[Kaykedi]

We walked around the coppice yesterday, we seen so many people out with dogs it’s just surprising that no one seen anything, the dog walkers must of just missed her literally.

Thank you

 

[Kaykedi]

6 to 7 minutes from cctv point to top of peel park Ave. Here the road forks, right goes into a path that leads to hotel. The road to left is a steep ascent towards the coppice car park, goes into a hair pin bend, with a narrow track heading of to the left from the hair pin that then leads to the back of WA. I don't know how to mark on a map. If defendant was in this area they would have met at approx 4.12. I wouldn't say this part is really isolated though quite ballsy of him if they met on this road.

Thank you

 

[Kaykedi]

I'm trying to find out at which point the defendant and Lindsay 'met'. I appreciate I might be asking too much. Thank you for your replies to my post about this, I really appreciate it, and, your information is so helpful

 

[Bampot]

Can any one tell me when we will know if the defendant is taking the stand or not? Can the prosecution call him as a...witness? I know he can refuse.
Or does the defendant only take the stand during defence? (I know he can refuse that also) I'm just unsure how this all works.

 

[Alyce]

Can any one tell me when we will know if the defendant is taking the stand or not? Can the prosecution call him as a...witness? I know he can refuse.
Or does the defendant only take the stand during defence? (I know he can refuse that also) I'm just unsure how this all works.

Only the Defence side can put him up to give testimony.

I expect the court will know whether he is going to, or not, as there must be a list of witnesses that are due to be called, but unlikely we will find out until just before he does (if he does).
I have seen some cases where Journos will tweet, saying that next witness is the defendant, so we get sometimes an hour or so warning.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I think the defendant killed Lindsay but I’m unsure whether the prosecution have proved that beyond a reasonable doubt. I know there is likely some information about the defendant that is being held until after the verdict, to then be used during sentencing arguments. As we saw with the murderer of little Alisha Macphail, there are some things that the jury don’t learn until after their verdict has been read.

 

[Alyce]

I just had a click on our Jury verdict poll - literally 50/50 at the moment

 

[Bampot]

I'm still very perplexed re the difference between the guilty vote and the jury vote. It's a big responsibility. But if you've believe he's guilty, vote guilty. That is your role. As someone said is there 100% proof werewolves don't exist?
Have faith in yourself, your opinion.
You don't always get 100% proof and you need to make a call.

 

[Kaykedi]

I just had a click on our Jury verdict poll - literally 50/50 at the moment

Alyce, where do I click on this please? I'm having a particularly thick day!

 

[jamjim]

I just voted on the poll, and it's still 50/50 at the minute!

 

[JosieJo]

I'm still very perplexed re the difference between the guilty vote and the jury vote. It's a big responsibility. But if you've believe he's guilty, vote guilty. That is your role. As someone said is there 100% proof werewolves don't exist?
Have faith in yourself, your opinion.
You don't always get 100% proof and you need to make a call.

For me I think he is likely guilty but I cant be sure .. you need to be sure ..any doubt at all I wouldn't go guilty

When I did jury service the judge said to us the best way to look at it is ask yourself "are you sure"

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Never known such a disjointed trial - It’s like they are having to pad it out and are struggling at that. Must be so hard for the jury members to get into it the way it’s been this week.

It it wasn't so serious it could be made into a slapstick comedy.

A bit of See No Evil Hear No Evil element to the case. The jury shivering in arctic conditions, rivers of excrement flowing from the toilets etc.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Add my vote to defendant

Who do you think killed Lindsay (as in the actual murder, not including any possible cover-up help)?
(please add your username and repost)

The Defendant:
MusicalMonkey
Bampot
Dcflag
Mind your biscuits
Niner
SpursGyal
Legally Bland
Roostercat
Sara20
LouLou38
Lancsboy
J4k
Spender
JosieJo - ["I also think the defendant killed her but that is different to being able to state guilty if on a jury"]
bluebird69
Kaykedi
Doris777
Smccat
LancashireLad
MissUnderstood

The Hooded Man:


A Family Member or Close Known Associate:
Sunflower22
Rosegold68
Tortoise
Alyce
Skigh
Ann Blyth

Combination of The Defendant and The Hooded Man:


Combination of The Defendant and Family Member or Close Known Associate:
JartyK
Angleterre

Someone else (please state):



Websleuth Opinion so far:

The Defendant: 20
Known Associate: 6
Defendant & Known Associate: 2

 

[Jartykarate]

In a UK court the prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt in the mind of the jurors that the defendant is guilty of what they are charged, the responsibility of the defence is not to prove that they didn’t do it, but to refute evidence given by the prosecution.

Defence counsel will no doubt think the hooded man story is nonsense also, but they are not there to make judgements on that, just to defend to the best of their ability given the information they have been briefed by the defendants solicitor.
If that is the statement provided to them they must run with that.

I think everyone would agree 100% that the defendant was involved in the removal and disposal of the body and from that we can have the opinion that he therefore must have been involved in the act of murder itself.

But i just don’t see any evidence presented to court that would prove that beyond all doubt in my mind.

Convicting people on opinions has proved costly for peoples lives, being incarcerated for crimes they did not commit in the recent past.

I believe the prosecution will apply for a lesser charge if there is no further useful evidence, if not the judges summing up will be key.

 

[MajorHoople]

It can and does often take longer than that because we have an emergency number 999 and then over the last couple of years a national number for the whole of Great Britain has been implemented 101 and it has, IMOO, made it almost impossible at times to get a meaningful response.
Let’s put it this way, I am a retired Senior Investigative Officer from a neighbouring Police force to Lancashire Police where this crime occurred and I was responsible for approx 80+ detectives and 5 detective departments. So I have a huge understanding of the issues faced by call handlers and dispatchers and the availability of staff due to staffing levels being cut and due to the austerity measures that came into effect with the Tory government in 2013 ish . Police numbers have been cut from 148,000 down to less than 120,000 and then ,in addition, 90% of the support staff roles and also PCSOs (who are like Police officers but have a much reduced role in terms of arrest etc ) have also been cut and the staff lost , so now , not only has there been a 60% increase in workload during this same time period (mainly due to online crime) but there’s also been a massive reduction in staffing levels and we are now at critical point! It doesn’t help that the outgoing PM Teresa May , cut the starting wages of new Police recruits so as a comparison ( all approximations apart from Police)...
The starting wage ( approx ) for newly qualified teacher is £26,000
Newly qualified nurse £25,000
Newly qualified Firefighter £22,000
Newly qualified Prison Officer £27,000
Newly qualified Police Officer 19,000
It’s despicable that they are expected to put their lives on the line for so little appreciation and valued members of society !
In December, I was the victim of a knife point Robbery, one of the more violent crimes and I initially dialled 999 but couldn’t get through. My ex husband and I then both simultaneously dialled 101 and waited for in excess of 90 minutes yet still wasn’t able to get through. I ended up reporting it online some 4 hours after it had occurred and what made it even worse was that it was 5 days later before I was visited by the Police. If this crime came in during my period of managing the CID ( criminal investigation department), then it would have been a priority crime and visited immediately because all such crimes were tagged to me as soon as they came in and they were visited by my detectives within the critical Golden hour . It was absolutely soul destroying to have 5 days whereby evidence was potentially lost as well as witnesses etc due to the delay.

Thank you Angleterre for such a detailed report. But first let me offer my sincere consolations for the assault and robbery that you suffered. I can imagine that it must have been frightening. I'm also sure that it was frustrating that you couldn't bring the robber to justice.

What little I do know of the current status of the British justice systems comes from the tabloids, mainly the Daily Mail. The comment section shows a great deal of dissatisfaction with the police and the court system. It looks like the public is tired of the short prison sentences of the felons that are caught and tried. The commenters want more officers, longer prison terms and less police resources spent on monitoring social media insults.

Britain once set the standard for innovative policing. Scotland Yard is still a famous and respected name in America. Hopefully things will improve some day.

 

[MajorHoople]

I think what happened was he phoned the non emergency nbr (101) as opposed to 999 for emergencies.

Even so, thats quite a wait. I reported a flooded road which was causing accidents at Christmas on 101 and waited about 5 minutes.

Edited nbr - confused it with nhs helpline!

I've called the police several times (mainly to report traffic accidents) and never had a wait, although it sometimes took another minute to transfer my call to the proper department.

Still the five minute wait you had doesn't sound bad.

 

[Kaykedi]

Isn’t this a vote of what people think, not necessarily how they would vote on a jury? I know it is in my case.

I am sure when she went missing there was a lot of talk about her phone, I can't find where it is (it might have been on the search LB FB group), I am sure it was mentioned that her phone last recieved a signal at 3.48. Many people couldn't understand why if it had no charge she took it with her. It was a massive discussion point. It was reported during trial. that she sent a message at 3.41

I think Lindsay will have charged her phone after returning from shopping in Asda, abd, before she went out for her walk

 

[Bampot]

I think the delay was he rang 111. And then his partner and waited for her to arrive. And then 999.

From lancs live-
Mr Parkinson said he called the police on 101 at 7.23pm to report the finding but 'couldn't get through'.

When his partner Sarah arrived at the scene he called 999 at 7.42pm.

 

[Niner]

Monday, March 9th:
*Trial continues (Day 8) (@ 2pm UK) – UK – Lindsay Birbeck (47) (from Huncoat; last seen ~ 2:30pm on Aug. 12, 2019 & walking towards Accrington on Burnley Road @ 4:06pm on CCTV; found Aug. 24, 2019 in the area of Accrington Cemetery on Burnley Road) - *16/now 17 year old arrested (8/27/19) on suspicion of murder & on charged (8/31/19) with murder. Plead not guilty. Remanded to custody.
Trial began on 2/25/20 with jury selection. Trial started on 2/26 with opening statements. Trial expected to last to 3/13 at the Preston Crown Court. Mrs. Justice Amanda Yip will be presiding judge. Jury: 11 women & 1 man.
The Judge has told the jury that the defendant has a moderate learning disability & suffers with ADHD & autism & finds communication more difficult than other people of similar age.
Jury selection Day 1 (2/25/20) & Trial Days 2 to 6 (2/26 & 3/4/20) info reference post #621 here:
Found Deceased - UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3
3/5/20 Thursday Day 7: Another delay this morning with heating problems, but it is fixed. The Judge has told the jury that we are now ‘coming towards the end of the prosecution case’. She said it maybe another shorter day and the jury could be sent home early. Prosecutor David McLachlan QC took the jury details of the defendant’s arrest & interview at Greenbank Police Station. He explains the defendant was interviewed five times on August 29, three times on August 30, & three times on August 31. The jury was read the statement from the defendant provided on August 30, 2019. (He did not kill Lindsay). See post #640 here: Found Deceased - UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3 Prosecutor witness: Detective Sergeant David Bowler (took the jury through clothing comparisons of the defendant as seen on CCTV on August 12, 16 & 17 a tracksuit recovered from his home). Mr. McLachlan took the jury through more agreed facts between the prosecution & defense. The first is DNA from a blood swap & hair recovered from the blue wheelie bin at Accrington Cemetery which was then store at Dill Hall Cemetery. The second is DNA from a right Sketchers trainers recovered from a blue plastic carrier bag in a large skip which had been at the cemetery. Jurors were told about DNA found on gloves recovered from Accrington Cemetery (Lindsay's & defendant's). The jury was shown different walkthrough videos of footpaths in the Hillock Vale area of Accrington, near to the Whitakers Arms on Burnley Road. This is where the defendant was seen walking with the blue wheelie bin. The jury was shown more points on their map in order to clarify where the key locations are. Mark Fenalls QC cross-examined DS Bowler. Prosecutor David McLachlan QC said they have nearly completed their case. The jurors have been sent away until Monday, March 9 at 2pm. as the trial is not sitting tomorrow. Details will then be given about plans for Monday & what time the jurors need to arrive. Change of plan: the court will reconvene after lunch at 2pm, but no evidence will be heard this afternoon.