Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #4

[JosieJo]

However, the jury can draw inferences from the incomplete and/or circumstantial evidence that they have been presented with.

The critical element in the view of each juror, is whether or not it all adds up to the defendant having killed LB, with or without intent and beyond all reasonable doubt.

It is all very subjective!

I agree absolutely...very subjective...and imo unless the jury managed to gain a very different prospective from being present...which of course is likely..I feel there could be a couple of jurors on the fence

 

[JosieJo]

However, the jury can draw inferences from the incomplete and/or circumstantial evidence that they have been presented with.

The critical element in the view of each juror, is whether or not it all adds up to the defendant having killed LB, with or without intent and beyond all reasonable doubt.

It is all very subjective!

I agree absolutely...very subjective...and imo unless the jury managed to gain a very different prospective from being present...which of course is likely..I feel there could be

 

[Popcorn80]

I have a feeling it could be a hung jury for some reason.

 

[SpursGyal]

I have a feeling it could be a hung jury for some reason.

Oh i hope not! Her family do not need to sit through another trial.

I still believe that he killed her, and his story is just that a story not even worthy of a fairytale.

If they have done enough to convince the jury we will soon find out.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I agree absolutely...very subjective...and imo unless the jury managed to gain a very different prospective from being present...which of course is likely..I feel there could be a couple of jurors on the fence

Absolutely. I would not be surprised if the jury fail to reach a verdict with all 12.

I can see them coming back to the Judge after 2-3 days of deliberations and not all being in agreement.

The Judge may allow a majority verdict. Even that may not be good enough for a decision.....oh me oh mi!

 

[CSBR]

I have a feeling it could be a hung jury for some reason.

Yes, I was thinking that they may struggle for a unanimous verdict. Hopefully they can agree enough for, and be allowed,a majority verdict to get the trial stage over for the family.

 

[Jartykarate]

Absolutely. I would not be surprised if the jury fail to reach a verdict with all 12.

I can see them coming back to the Judge after 2-3 days of deliberations and not all being in agreement.

The Judge may allow a majority verdict. Even that may not be good enough for a decision.....oh me oh mi!

With all the circumstantial evidence to go through and weigh up then you would hope they take a good while to reach a decision as nothing is clear cut.

 

[Becky53]

Lindsay Birbeck was 5"10 and 53kg.


which equals 116 lbs or 8 stone 4 lbs

tall but by no means heavy

That’s extremely underweight IMO - wonder if it’s a typo?
I’d have put her around the 10 stone from the still of her and the photographs.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Based on the evidence I would have to give not guilty as there is nothing decisive to make him 100% guilty of murder or manslaughter in my mind, I can’t rule out that another person was present and the only concrete evidence is that he moved and buried the body which he has admitted to.

Just on probability though I believe he will have been involved in the actual act even if it was just as an accessory.

My suspicion is that the jury will convict on a murder charge however.

Not long until we find out one way or the other.

Is there not a subtle difference between 100% certainly and 'beyond all reasonable doubt'?

With many 'stranger' murders there can never be 100% certainty of guilt, as an example Levi Bellfield and the death of Milly Dowler!

 

[Jartykarate]

Is there not a subtle difference between 100% certainly and 'beyond all reasonable doubt'.

With many 'stranger' murders there can never be 100% certainty of guilt, as an example Levi Bellfield and the death of Milly Dowler!

yes of course, I should have put beyond reasonable doubt not 100% convinced.

 

[accylocal]

That was the last time she was seen alive.

"She wasn't seen further down Burnley Road.

It's also the quickest way to the coppice from her house! Why would she walk all the way round to the main entrance? Theres no need for her to do so. She will of used this route probably every day. She will of certainly got up there. It's a much quieter route too. We used to sometimes go that way with the bikes as kids. Its quiet. Its away f

"There are cameras on Carlisle Road,


"A bus went past just 45 seconds later,


"That had CCTV and didn't capture her on Carlisle Road or Burnley Road.


"Therefore the police concluded that she turned left down Peel Park Avenue and that she was heading onto the Coppice.



I don't get this calculation. From the bungalow cctv to Peel Park Ave turn off is just under 300 metres, a walk of about 2 minutes. Maybe less if walking quickly, but not as quick as being able to do the distance in under 45 seconds.
The distance from the cctv to the pathway between Whittakers Arms and the Funeral Directors is about 30 metres, and very do able in less than 45 seconds.
I think this is where she turned up and put herself in direct path of her attacker.

That was the last time she was seen alive.

"She wasn't seen further down Burnley Road.


"There are cameras on Carlisle Road,


"A bus went past just 45 seconds later,


"That had CCTV and didn't capture her on Carlisle Road or Burnley Road.


"Therefore the police concluded that she turned left down Peel Park Avenue and that she was heading onto the Coppice.



I don't get this calculation. From the bungalow cctv to Peel Park Ave turn off is just under 300 metres, a walk of about 2 minutes. Maybe less if walking quickly, but not as quick as being able to do the distance in under 45 seconds.
The distance from the cctv to the pathway between Whittakers Arms and the Funeral Directors is about 30 metres, and very do able in less than 45 seconds.
I think this is where she turned up and put herself in direct path of her attacker.

I have no doubt she has gone up that path to the coppice. It's the quickest and easiest route for her. Why would she walk all the way round basically to get to another entrance? And the other entrances are not exactly round the corner they are quite a walk. Its close to her house and easy access.

As kids we used to go with our bikes around the same path. Its quiet. If lindsay did shout I dont think the houses near would of heard and most would of still been at work. Theres also a main road cancelling out any noise.
The pub was also closed.

Very surprised the funeral place didnt have cctv or even the pub for the carpark.

 

[Jartykarate]

Can’t remember a case where the prosecution and the defence are using exactly the same evidence to prove guilt or innocence, really is a strange case. Judge not committing either, as you would expect really.

 

[Alyce]

I have no doubt she has gone up that path to the coppice. It's the quickest and easiest route for her. Why would she walk all the way round basically to get to another entrance? And the other entrances are not exactly round the corner they are quite a walk. Its close to her house and easy access.

As kids we used to go with our bikes around the same path. Its quiet. If lindsay did shout I dont think the houses near would of heard and most would of still been at work. Theres also a main road cancelling out any noise.
The pub was also closed.

Very surprised the funeral place didnt have cctv or even the pub for the carpark.

Thanks Accy, that makes more sense to me.

From memory, I think there was some discussion, last year, that the cctv at Whitakers was switched off due to the refurb that was taking place at that time.

 

[Rosegold68]

i'm struggling massively with the motive not being identified! there will be one, of course, there always is

but what!

 

[Niner]

Didn't the defense attorney say "we" don't know where he was from 2pm to 6:20pm - (or something like that) - wouldn't LE want to get a alibi out of him? Didn't his attorney even ask him "where" he was between those times?

 

[Gingerwolf]

I don't know which feed its on but it says she is seen on cctv at 256 Burnley Rd which is the block before you turn up peel Park Ave, and thats the last sighting of her

 

[Alyce]

I don't know which feed its on but it says she is seen on cctv at 256 Burnley Rd which is the block before you turn up peel Park Ave, and thats the last sighting of her

Just reading that on the Lancs Telegraph feed.

Far as I remember, the cctv sighting comes from the bungalow next to Whitakers Arms,and that is at 328 or 326 Burnley Road

could it be a typo ?

I am just editing this as I can't see the numbers to be sure which number it is...but it is definitely in the 300's not the 200's

 

[Jartykarate]

Didn't the defense attorney say "we" don't know where he was from 2pm to 6:20pm - (or something like that) - wouldn't LE want to get a alibi out of him? Didn't his attorney even ask him "where" he was between those times?

As the judge said he has the right to say nothing, it is up to the police/prosecution to say he was there and involved, it’s not up to the defence to prove he wasn’t.

 

[Niner]

As the judge said he has the right to say nothing, it is up to the police/prosecution to say he was there and involved, it’s not up to the defence to prove he wasn’t.

So not like here where LE asks for an alibi? You don't have to tell police in the U.K. "where" you've been?

 

[Legally Bland]

Didn't the defense attorney say "we" don't know where he was from 2pm to 6:20pm - (or something like that) - wouldn't LE want to get a alibi out of him? Didn't his attorney even ask him "where" he was between those times?

The only information he's offered is in his prepared statement and it doesn't say where he was. The police interviewed him 11 times and he answered no comment.