Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #4

[Officer Dibble]

They have someone who matches his description in the area acting in a threatening way towards a woman...

Snipped by me above..... could you really say it was threatening though? Are you referring to him following one of the witnesses then him reappearing as if he had run to catch her up? Or have I missed something?

 

[Roostercat]

Thanks Sunflower and Consuela, it was me not understanding her meaning. But I also agree, it doesn't help too much if she had no idea of the weight he was lifting.

I would discount that witness, no idea on what weight he was lifting, probably wouldn't be able to say if he was lifting them properly or not, she is clearly not a professional in that field. He could have been lifting 6kg dumbells - big difference to a 70kg woman. I think the prosecution are working hard to prove that he was strong (teacher witness 'strong walker' 'stronger than he looked)' I am assuming by the look of the defendant they are possibly worried that a big question from the jury could be 'how did someone so small manage to attack, kill and manoeuvre a 5ft 11 lady by himself?'

 

[SpursGyal]

Snipped by me above..... could you really say it was threatening though? Are you referring to him following one of the witnesses then him reappearing as if he had run to catch her up? Or have I missed something?

Yes, I think we only have the snippets the reporters have given us, however she mention that his actions and presence make her uncomfortable enough to change her route and look for something to defend herself and hope to see more people.
She clearly walks there regularly so it cannot be she feels vulnerable because of the location.

I’ve often seen people while walking that make me more alert, but never have I felt the need to change route, or find something to defend myself with, especially not in daylight walking.

 

[Alyce]

Yes, I think we only have the snippets the reporters have given us, however she mention that his actions and presence make her uncomfortable enough to change her route and look for something to defend herself and hope to see more people.
She clearly walks there regularly so it cannot be she feels vulnerable because of the location.

I’ve often seen people while walking that make me more alert, but never have I felt the need to change route, or find something to defend myself with, especially not in daylight walking.

I agree, it's her regular haunt, so for her to feel afraid, it had to be something out of the ordinary.

I thought her evidence was very good, even allowing for the Defence trying to undermine her by questioning her eyesight. As has been said, elsewhere, I could also feel the fear in her words - and that's just us reading her testimony on a page. I would think ( hope ) it will be more compelling to the Jury, watching her in person.

 

[Roostercat]

Yes, I think we only have the snippets the reporters have given us, however she mention that his actions and presence make her uncomfortable enough to change her route and look for something to defend herself and hope to see more people.
She clearly walks there regularly so it cannot be she feels vulnerable because of the location.

I’ve often seen people while walking that make me more alert, but never have I felt the need to change route, or find something to defend myself with, especially not in daylight walking.

Previously I would never have been afraid of a teenage boy, but now I am wary of them, not good when you work in a high school! I don't doubt Zoe B was afraid and felt uncomfortable but I do question the delay in her reporting it - 7 days.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I agree, it's her regular haunt, so for her to feel afraid, it had to be something out of the ordinary.

I thought her evidence was very good, even allowing for the Defence trying to undermine her by questioning her eyesight. As has been said, elsewhere, I could also feel the fear in her words - and that's just us reading her testimony on a page. I would think ( hope ) it will be more compelling to the Jury, watching her in person.

I think it was the word 'threatening' that I was querying but I assumed there was something that happened that I skipped over. I'm not sure she felt threatened from what I read but that she felt alarmed and on guard and vulnerable, perhaps? JMO

 

[SpursGyal]

Previously I would never have been afraid of a teenage boy, but now I am wary of them, not good when you work in a high school! I don't doubt Zoe B was afraid and felt uncomfortable but I do question the delay in her reporting it - 7 days.

It appears she tried to report it, as soon as she realised Lindsay was missing, and also considered it before. For me, I would have had to have felt very alarmed to ever consider it at that point.

'15:30
Police contact efforts
Zoe Braitwaite said after seeing the male on August 12 she spoke with her husband but didn’t take any further action at that time.

The witness said after seeing the appeal and media reports she decided to try and speak to a police officer on August 12. When this didn’t work she made two attempts to complete an online form'

 

[SpursGyal]

I think it was the word 'threatening' that I was querying but I assumed there was something that happened that I skipped over. I'm not sure she felt threatened from what I read but that she felt alarmed and on guard and vulnerable, perhaps? JMO

Maybe it wasn't my greatest choice of words, but she must have felt more than a little uneasy, IMO.

 

[sunflower22]

Previously I would never have been afraid of a teenage boy, but now I am wary of them, not good when you work in a high school! I don't doubt Zoe B was afraid and felt uncomfortable but I do question the delay in her reporting it - 7 days.

Also I don’t understand why she’s changed the description to his trainers, she was very pacific on the blue trainers with the v on them. Now she saying they are black? Is that because she’s now seen the cctv of him and noted he was wearing black trainers? I’m sure the defence will be on to this next week.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I don't think the jury would have a hard time convicting at the moment.

They have him in the area at the time she entered, They have someone who matches his description in the area acting in a threatening way towards a woman, there is no sign of anyone else in the area. There is no DNA evidence of anyone else on Lindsay, he only admitted to the disposing of her body IMO because they have more than enough evidence on him forensic and cctv. His story is a fairytale, and it's quite easy to see that.

All as SpursGyal says and not forgetting the devastating ante-mortem injury to LB's neck, which caused her death.

Now does that not show intent to cause serious harm or even kill, if the force required for such an injury is so considerable?

Just my thoughts[/QUOTE]

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Also I don’t understand why she’s changed the description to his trainers, she was very pacific on the blue trainers with the v on them. Now she saying they are black? Is that because she’s now seen the cctv of him and noted he was wearing black trainers? I’m sure the defence will be on to this next week.

I suspect it's the less than impressive Court reporting again.

The witness will just be rehashing the statement that she gave to the police at the time. She can't start changing the details without being called out by the defence. This would certainly call the reliability of her evidence into question.

 

[Doris777]

Think today was a waste of time. But role on next week to see what happens. I can't even see which way it will go now.

There are 2 newspapers reporting this case. Lancs live and the Lancashire telegraph. The telegraph has been reporting in more detail. Today it said about talking to the police about a matter...what could that be? Is that normal at this stage? I'll try to post the screenshot.

 

[SpursGyal]

Think today was a waste of time. But role on next week to see what happens. I can't even see which way it will go now.

There are 2 newspapers reporting this case. Lancs live and the Lancashire telegraph. The telegraph has been reporting in more detail. Today it said about talking to the police about a matter...what could that be? Is that normal at this stage? I'll try to post the screenshot.

I would read that as they have some more agreed facts to produce to the jury and maybe a police officer statement.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I dont think the weightlifting evidence was a dead loss.

I know it's not proof that he lifted huge weights, but it does put in my mind that he was into lifting weights and had as a result probably built up some strength.

A lot of lads around that age still look kind of, well not to be rude, but puny.... The weightlifting scenario gives credibility that there was more than meets the eye.

JMO

 

[SpursGyal]

I dont think the weightlifting evidence was a dead loss.

I know it's not proof that he lifted huge weights, but it does put in my mind that he was into lifting weights and had as a result probably built up some strength.

A lot of lads around that age still look kind of, well not to be rude, but puny.... The weightlifting scenario gives credibility that there was more than meets the eye.

JMO

I think the fact she’s a gym goer, and sees him and others Of various abilities there a lot, while she can’t say the exact weight, she will have a fair idea of what he’s lifting, enough to be surprised.

 

[JosieJo]

It's the lack of motive that worries me ..obviously if he did try for zoe first it may help the jury learn towards a sexual motive ...but with no forensics on the body or his underwear or internet history its weak

The pathologist says the neck injury was severe ...stood on or a knee type injury

It just has the feel of a quick killing for who knows what reason

 

[JosieJo]

For anyone who may know about sentencing etc ??
How much does he stand to gain in prison years by pleading not guilty to manslaughter?
Based on already pleading guilty to unlawful burial??

Thanks only just picked up your reply

What I meant was ...he has already admitted unlawful burial...which can receive up to a life sentence
Is he saving himself much extra prison time by trying to get off manslaughter also

Hope that makes sense

 

[JosieJo]

I still cant see any reason the prosecution offered up manslaughter other than hoping he would confess

"If" the jury decides he did kill her the severity of the neck injury is not in keeping with manslaughter

 

[Alyce]

I have seen a report somewhere about Preston going into lockdown tonight ?

 

[Emmalt]

I don't think he killed her. I still think it's the ex behind it all. I think he is likely to be protecting a family member who did the killing for money promised by the ex of LB.

One thing I noticed is that ZB hasn't positively ID'd the defendant as being the guy who she saw on the coppice.

I also don't believe LB was taken to the cemetery on the 17th.. I think it was more like the 20th/21st. I think she was well hidden where she was to start. In the bin on the coppice or behind her house somewhere. The vegetation found under her body is likely from the coppice but was pulled out by hand between the 20th and 23rd.

I'm just not believing he did all this by himself. He was clever enough to get rid of her clothes, phone, keys, fitbit.. but left the saw, her shoes and gloves in the cem grounds where she buried..