GUILTY UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #5

[Dotta]

Isn't it usually the other way round? Talking to people in an assumed babyish voice is a form of mockery.

But it would be counter productive if he wanted to mollify, no?

 

[Cherwell]

But it would be counter productive if he wanted to mollify, no?

It all depends on the context.

 

[Dotta]

It all depends on the context.

It depends on how we view the teen.

If we demonise him or see him as a troubled, neglected child, a victim also.

 

[altyg]

Totally agree about the social worker's selective hearing. She is trying to save her own skin. I just wonder what on earth made her think placing him with a family with young children was a good idea in the first place.

Then hearing what happened in the foster home let JC have him ,just beggers belief.

IMO, the social worker thought she was placing the youth with JC, not a family

 

[Skigh]

IMO, the social worker thought she was placing the youth with JC, not a family

She knew the youth was at AW's house because she visited and spoke to JC there. She also should have known JC was in a long term relationship with AW who had young children.

I would find it difficult to imagine the youth had not spoken about Logan to his social worker.

We also have the belated report to the police by AW stating the youth pushed Logan downstairs.

 

[Cherwell]

It depends on how we view the teen.
If we demonise him or see him as a troubled, neglected child, a victim also.

Everyone has a choice whether to inflict violence and cruelty on people weaker than themselves - or not.
No matter what their background.

 

[Doughy]

She knew the youth was at AW's house because she visited and spoke to JC there. She also should have known JC was in a long term relationship with AW who had young children.

I would find it difficult to imagine the youth had not spoken about Logan to his social worker.

We also have the belated report to the police by AW stating the youth pushed Logan downstairs.

Indeed. Social work assessments include ecological systems theory for looking at the service user's 'systems' which don't just include immediate family but the people surrounding the immediate family & their interconnecting relationships and so on. Its critical that the whole picture is looked at so they should've been looking at AW etc etc

https://www.simplypsychology.org/Bronfenbrenner.html

 

[Dotta]

Everyone has a choice whether to inflict violence and cruelty on people weaker than themselves - or not.
No matter what their background.

Of course, that is why he is in "the dock" accused of murder.

 

[Rednaxela]

It depends on how we view the teen.

If we demonise him or see him as a troubled, neglected child, a victim also.

Do we know that Y is neurotypical?
There is so little reported on the evidence relating to Y due to restrictions, we might be missing some significant elements.
Upthread was a discussion about awareness of action and consequence, being taught at school and knowing this from the martial arts. But this isn’t necessarily the case with mental health concerns, as I know from my own experience.
Is it possible that AW is no angel, maybe with some dark secrets to protect, but not a murderer? And maybe JC too? But is it also possible that Y has entered their lives and totally destabilised it, abused Logan to the extent that it’s led to his death?
Is this why AW shouted “you’ve done nothing wrong” - was she concerned for his mental health, does he have a condition, was he known to CAMHS?
Is it possible that AW and JC are deeply involved, covering, hiding evidence, disposing of body etc, but both knowing that Logan died at the hands of Y, and they’re protecting him on account of a condition?
If this were the case, would they still progress their own evidence at trial the way that they have?
Just thinking…

(for context - no generalities intended in respect to mental health and the potential to murder)

 

[Skigh]

<modsnip: Quoted post was remove> ... a good reminder that there are limits to what we can discuss about the youth.

 

[Skigh]

A trip which never should have taken place given his history. Another huge error by social services.

We do not know what type of school the youth had currently been attending.

 

[Dotta]

We do not know what type of school the youth had currently been attending.

True.
But he was not isolated, Nor was given individual lessons.

 

[Skigh]

It was the summer holidays when Logan was murdered. We do not know the youth's educational history. He might have been in a special school or excluded from school before the Summer break.

We do know that he had had previously had problems in school .

 

[Cherwell]

We do know that he had had previously had problems in school .

He had problems? Caused them, more likely.

 

[HilaryHormone]

But why would he hate Logan so much as to tell he wanted to kill him?

Was he jealous of JC being a stepdad to the boy?

Or maybe it was just silly provocative behaviour?

I reckon he may have been jealous, but also would have picked up on JC’s clear dislike for Logan and subconsciously felt justified in bullying and hurting him, because JC did it too.

<modsnip: Quoted post as removed>

 

[Powermjp]

The age of criminal responsibility in England and Wales is 10 years old, I guess we need to go on that.

by the law he is responsible and that's it.

I feel we go around in circles about motives and because of upbringing if he responsible, or knew right from wrong. I feel we need to look at UK law on responsibility and follow it

 

[VixenLeaf]

The trouble with what he is saying are some of JCs lies is that he never actually said them in police interviews or on the stand. AW was the one who made claims re the SAS and the 99 year sentence. There is no evidence of him saying that except for AWs word and she has also demonstrated that she tells lies.

wasnt there another witness who testified tk him saying he’d been in the sas etc?

 

[Doris777]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

... knowing right from wrong. To a certain level people know it but not always.
The biggest thing is understanding how life effects everyone differently. I had a bad childhood. As a result I've CPTSD. Now to look at my family u would say that I should be like them but I'm the opposite of everything they where. That doesn't mean I'm ok tho. I'm complex. I don't always understand things properly. I don't always say the right thing ect. But I have done ok in life and avoided going down a bad path! Early childhood development shapes people massively. If there's abuse it sticks in the mind and a child doesn't develop properly...put that child in violence and crime and no love they will depelop into something bad and carry on doing that. I think this is the case with the youth. I think he's had it bad as a kid. That's carried on and hes hit out at everyone around him and done some serious damage to Logan. I don't think he's understood fully what he's done or was doing.
Doesn't mean I think it's ok or that I agree with him. He's needs punishment. He's an unsafe person who needs locking up and help.

I bet he's alot of undiagnosed problems. Same with kids who commit crimes around the world. There's always a hidden trigger to anyone. Child or adult. I think it's automatic in us to just say a person is evil and some are but I do think alot are just messed up and undiagnosed with some serious mental health issues that go back to early childhood development and neglect.

It's a very complex thing to understand...and people who get it know because they have been through it. People who haven't been there don't get it at all.

Sorry I'm having a ramble but things like this really intrest me. Especially living the life I've had.

All moo

 

[VixenLeaf]

I know from my many years teaching that any child would know kicking another child in the stomach could seriously injured them.

An older junior age child (even if they had learning difficulties) would know if they hit/kicked/punched an infant aged child they could seriously harm them. All schools take any head injury,however minor, seriously and children are very aware that heads are something you protect.

There is no way in that small flat could AW be unaware of violence being inflicted on Logan. He had been systematically abused over a period of time. If by the smallest possibility of chance she did not witness an attack,Logan's injuries would have alerted her to the fact he had been attacked. His crushed hand alone should have warranted medical attention yet alone anything else.

yes children know hitting hurts but I don’t think they’d realise even at 13 that a punch to the stomach or head could kill.

Also you can’t really say she would’ve seen all the abuse. Yes she’s certainly see some but as someone else said could’ve put it down to just boys being boys. She may well herself not realise how much harm can be caused by being punched. I don’t think she’s that bright.

jmo

 

[VioletLilac]

I know the jury aren't allowed to Google the case so they aren't influenced, but how would anyone know if they did this?