GUILTY UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #5

[neteditor]

I'm not as familiar with the British system. Will the prosecution weave together the facts in evidence to give what it believes is the most likely scenario? Using all the disparate facts and testimonies, will we learn something about the timing of the different attacks on the boy? The evidence regarding the youth seems rather thin. When did he attack Logan as opposed to being attacked by JC alone? It seems like a weaker case. Why did JC choose the youth over the mother of his child? It would have been credible for both the adults to point the finger at him.

They can't get creative with it, they can only reiterate the evidence the jury has heard already, but of course their skill is doing so in such a way that they leave a strong impression in their minds.

This is an interesting site for more information about how courts work. (Also bear in mind there are other legal systems in Britain. The jurisdiction for this case is the law of England and Wales. Scotland has it's own completely separate legal system, so this site link would not be helpful there).

Crown Court Trial Part 3 - Prosecution Case — Defence-Barrister.co.uk

 

[Jay_Tec]

JC has also probably pulled his final abuse against AW - he has simultaneously tried to protect the Youth and made sure AW can't have their baby. His baby.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Just another example of AW’s attitude towards her child and her avoidance of responsibility It also shows how erratic she could be, on one hand avoiding services and IMO probably resenting their interference, yet on the other hand she allegedly wanted to relinquish Logan to that very same system.

I’d be surprised if a child living in Logan’s environment didn’t demonstrate challenging behaviours, whether it was to get his needs met, express his distress or even in imitation of the awful male role models he had. Rather than take a step back and really consider her child and what he may have been communicating to her, rather than take the support offered by social work, AW maintained the status quo and colluded with JC to label Logan as the problem because it suited her.

MOO.

100% and this is why children must be given far higher rights IMO

Social workers must not be sidelined into being viewed as 'child snatchers'

Teachers, dinner serving people, school cleaners, everyone, must not be afraid to voice doubts

Neighbours and curtain twitchers should be facilitated to voice concerns that get listened to

Children need to know how to tell someone what is happening at home.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Do you think AW was aware that she and her children were on the short end of this trade off?

 

[neteditor]

MOO, but I don't think they desired Logan dead, per se, I think they just didn't care that he *might* die if they mistreated him. If they'd been planning to kill him, they might have planned a better way to get away with it. This was a perfect storm of elements... AW being needy, selfish, weak. JC being the sort of kid-on hardman who only feels powerful when he's bullying women and children. And a dangerous, disturbed youth who need little encouragement to inflict pain on a smaller boy. The covid lockdowns may have sped up the timeframe of the deterioration of Logan's life, but very sadly I feel his end was inevitable with these three. And the baby would have been next.

 

[Jay_Tec]

I would hope the court are privvy to a full and honest account what the Youth's Social Worker interaction was that day she visited AW's house.

I think there's a HECK of a lot more to this than we've been told. To do with JC's house, the Youth's residence order, money, social services, neighbour complaints, and witnesses who have given information in confidentiality or informally.

JMOO

 

[Jay_Tec]

MOO, but I don't think they desired Logan dead, per se, I think they just didn't care that he *might* die if they mistreated him. If they'd been planning to kill him, they might have planned a better way to get away with it. This was a perfect storm of elements... AW being needy, selfish, weak. JC being the sort of kid-on hardman who only feels powerful when he's bullying women and children. And a dangerous, disturbed youth who need little encouragement to inflict pain on a smaller boy. The covid lockdowns may have sped up the timeframe of the deterioration of Logan's life, but very sadly I feel his end was inevitable with these three. And the baby would have been next.

Agree. I don't think they planned to kill him either. They are very *unconscious* people.

I posted that the other day in terms of (dysfunctional) dynamics Logan was not fitting into their plan - he didn't have a role or place. His death was inevitable unless he had been fully removed.

That's probably what social services knew the whole time when they came to confront AW about JC's past and maybe the Youth's circumstances.

JMOO.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Do you think AW was aware that she and her children were on the short end of this trade off?

MOO - No. She is profoundly unconscious being, mindless, narcissistic, and selfish. She was easily manouvered (sp?) into the fantasy 'wedding, perfect family, phenomenal man' situation which was never real - a classic move of controlling abusive predators and con artists = the fake future fantasy.

To be fair to JC (hard to type), seems things moved very quickly, he liked her a lot, they had sex the first night, she became quickly pregnant, a runaway train situation arose... maybe he bigged up himself to a bit more than he really was and reality slowly descended over time and the whole situation was totally unmanageable with no way out...

Logan was the scapegoat in a toxic, dysfunctional, horrific, family unit.

The scapegoat never gets a role or an ending. The scapegoat ALWAYS has to leave.

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

Thread is closed for cleanup.

Thread has been reopened. Carry on.

 

[tedtink]

The scapegoat never gets a role or an ending. The scapegoat ALWAYS has to leave.

I disagree.
The scapegoat is actually a 'role' in itself in this type of family dynamic.
Unfortunately too many 'scapegoats' become institutionalised in toxic family dynamics, that include a narcissist as a main care giver and some never do escape.
Many stay in hope that someday, they will feel validated by the narcissistic parent.
They don't always leave....... or get murdered for that matter.
JMO

 

[Kitkat28]

Housing laws in the US are fairly irrelevant in this case though.

People can quote so called “overcrowding” laws ad infinitum, but they don’t mean anything substantial. If you are “over occupying” a council or housing association house then theoretically you get priority for a larger house. However, it’s only theoretical because most councils and HAs don’t have larger houses, so in practice they will just tell you to find a private rental.

Logan’s “family” weren’t overcrowded by Shelter (housing charity) guidelines which states that a house with 3 rooms, which their flat had (living room and 2 bedrooms) can easily house a couple, a child over 10, a child under 10 and a baby. There’s technically space for at least two more under 10s. Check if your home is overcrowded by law - Shelter England

 

[tedtink]

Housing laws in the US are fairly irrelevant in this case though.

People can quote so called “overcrowding” laws ad infinitum, but they don’t mean anything substantial. If you are “over occupying” a council or housing association house then theoretically you get priority for a larger house. However, it’s only theoretical because most councils and HAs don’t have larger houses, so in practice they will just tell you to find a private rental.

Logan’s “family” weren’t overcrowded by Shelter (housing charity) guidelines which states that a house with 3 rooms, which their flat had (living room and 2 bedrooms) can easily house a couple, a child over 10, a child under 10 and a baby. There’s technically space for at least two more under 10s. Check if your home is overcrowded by law - Shelter England

Exactly!

Even of they were all living together, permanently, which they were not. They still wouldn't have been overcrowded.

Thank goodness that has been resolved.

 

[wowiezowie]

Shaving always has derogatory meaning for a person: prisoners, women who slept with enemy during the war, people having lice, etc.

While cutting hair short is neutral

In AW's testimony she said one of the reasons they shaved Logan's head it because he had hair lice.

 

[Dotta]

In AW's testimony she said one of the reasons they shaved Logan's head it because he had hair lice.

To be fair, it happens in primary schools.
In the school I work, a nurse checks pupils' heads systematically.
Girls with long hair must have it tied.
1 person can cause a whole class to have them.

 

[tedtink]

To be fair, it happens in primary schools.
In the school I work, a nurse checks pupils' heads systematically.
Girls with long hair must have it tied.
1 person can cause a whole class to have them.

We don't have the so called 'nit nurse' in schools in the UK any more. It was mainly due to shrinking budgets and there was a shift in thinking where people thought it discriminatory to have children singled out if they were found to have nits.

 

[Dotta]

We don't have the so called 'nit nurse' in schools in the UK any more. It was mainly due to shrinking budgets and there was a shift in thinking that people thought it discriminatory to have children 'singled out' if they were found to have nits in school.

It is done discreetly.
Children go to the nurse's office one by one.
If there is a "problem", a nurse writes a note to a parent with the instructions how to deal with it.
Children know nothing who has this problem.

 

[Skigh]

Nits are a constant problem in all British Primary schools.Fortunately in all my years teaching I only had them once. I must say I was horrified.! It was from a child with what I called supernits,. They were visible crawling in her hair.

 

[Powermjp]

The shaven head - I noticed in a few other cases like the baby P case they shaved all his hair away. I can't put my finger but some abusers like to shave it off, I don't know why though. It's to take away some of their identity?

 

[mrazda71]

The shaven head - I noticed in a few other cases like the baby P case they shaved all his hair away. I can't put my finger but some abusers like to shave it off, I don't know why though. It's to take away some of their identity?

In all of the prominent cases of children being neglected & murdered by a parent or partner of parent ... how many were middle class/financially comfortable?

There a glaringly obvious reason for cropping hair- it's cheap or free once you have clippers.

Keeping a boys hair trimmed isn't cheap if you're struggling financially, it costs around £10+ depending on the salon/barbers, every 6 weeks ... that mounts up, especially if you have more than one child..

 

[JuicyLucy]

Baby P's hair was shaved because of head lice supposedly:

Nasty, brutish and short: The horrific life of Baby P