UK - Lucy Letby - Post-Conviction Statutory Inquiry

[Sweeper2000]

Absolutely guilty and I do think they will charge her with more in due course.

You don't go with the whole "sudden onset infanticidal compulsions" then? I Don't, I think she's been doing stuff but not so severe for years. Example misplaced tubes here and there, too much and too little of things here and there, a hand over the mouth and nose for a few seconds. Maybe just enough to see the moniters change for a few seconds but not enough for anything but very brief symptoms.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I’m not sure she is there sweep - she just wants to know exactly “ WHO “
Knowledge is power.
She knows she’s got DC in her pocket at this point.

Ahhh I thought it coincided with when they "drifted apart" and she was trying to see if that was the reason. Not sure I'm right in the timings there.

 

[cottonweaver]

Alison Kelly & HR's Sue Hodkinson get an email from LL's RCN rep Hayley, on behalf of LL

LL is very unhappy that Karen Rees has relayed the message that LL should no longer visit Alder Hey
Very assertive and demanding

email ends with....
' yet again it is left to Karen Rees, Kathryn de Beger & me to pick up the pieces '
( Karen Rees is associate head of nursing at this stage and she's providing time-intensive support to one nurse in a large organisation)

BTW the Rees and Murphy hearing transcript is uploaded although I won't be reading it right now. Too much like hard work but in case anybody else wants to:

https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Thirlwall-Inquiry-21-October-2024.pdf

 

[Parker Knoll]

The pandering is off the scale.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Alison Kelly & HR's Sue Hodkinson get an email from LL's RCN rep Hayley, on behalf of LL

LL is very unhappy that Karen Rees has relayed the message that LL should no longer visit Alder Hey
Very assertive and demanding

email ends with....
' yet again it is left to Karen Rees, Kathryn de Beger & me to pick up the pieces '
( Karen Rees is associate head of nursing at this stage and she's providing time-intensive support to one nurse in a large organisation)

View attachment 539524


BTW the Rees and Murphy hearing transcript is uploaded although I won't be reading it right now. Too much like hard work but in case anybody else wants to:

https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Thirlwall-Inquiry-21-October-2024.pdf

I'm not quite sure I understand this. To me it reads that people thought the issue was over but with this it's starting again and left to them to deal with? Doesn't sound like they understand its ongoing.

 

[iamshadow21]

You don't go with the whole "sudden onset infanticidal compulsions" then? I Don't, I think she's been doing stuff but not so severe for years. Example misplaced tubes here and there, too much and too little of things here and there, a hand over the mouth and nose for a few seconds. Maybe just enough to see the moniters change for a few seconds but not enough for anything but very brief symptoms.

I bet she started doing things like pinching babies' skin to make them cry, pinching their air tubes or noses shut, just for a few moments. Pushing a feed in, knowing it would cause great discomfort. Little cruelties, slowly at first, then escalating quicker and quicker until nothing but killing would do.

MOO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Please may I ask a Q?
Are many members of this thread still adamant LL is guilty?

Of course she is - absolutely no doubt here. And this is coming from someone who was pretty certain of the opposite when I first read about this back in 2020!

And I see that David Davis is spouting forth again;

Ex Cabinet minister: I'm '90-odd per cent certain' Letby is innocent

Lucy Letby, 34, was found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to kill seven others at the Countess of Chester Hospital between 2015 and 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Speaking on GB News, Mr Davis said: 'I have spent three months going through the evidence.

'I think most likely - you can't be certain - but most likely, like 90 odd percent, not guilty.'

He added: 'The most likely reason is one of two things, either poor management of the hospital - the Royal College found that, or a superbug - an investigation found that, or both together. That is much more likely.

Delusional!

Actually, to be fair, he is right on one point. Poor management was in-part responsible because it allowed a serial killer to go about causing utter mayhem for years, so he's not wrong there.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Absolutely guilty and I do think they will charge her with more in due course.

I think you're right.

As we've discussed before, though, I'm not sure that charging her with more would be the right thing to do. She's never getting out and I can't see any real public interest in bringing further charges. She can't be punished any more than she already is and there is no public safety issue to address.

Unless they come up with some very strong reasoning, I think that bringing more charges would be hard to justify.

 

[cottonweaver]

Today's schedule at Thirlwall
22 October 2024
Risk & Patient Safety Lead, Project Lead, Risk & Safety Team, Clinical Governance Lead and Risk Midwife
Week 7 Oral Evidence, Tuesday 22 October 2024 | The Thirlwall Inquiry
Debbie Peacock, Janet McMahon and AnneMarie Lawrence

So, before the Risk & Patient Safety staff' testifiy' just wanted to add some context from old media reporting.

Chester media: 2014 , 'Hospitals branded poor for reports on patient safety'

Hospitals branded poor for reports on patient safety

Countess of Chester and Ellesmere Port Hospitals received the rating from the Department of Health (DH) and NHS England

www.cheshire-live.co.uk

In 2014, CoCH received the bad rating from the Department of Health (DH) and NHS England.
'Safety incidents include medical errors resulting in injury, suffering, disability or death in patients and failure to protect NHS whistleblowers when they raise the alarm. Targets include potential underreporting of patient safety incidents, possible underreporting of incidents leading to death or severe harm and potential under-reporting of accidents which resulted in no harm.
Tony Chambers responded to the Chester press re the bad rating
He said over the past year it had signed up to schemes to encourage staff and patients to raise the alarm over poor practice and to protect whistleblowers.

He said: “We are making inroads, but we will always have more to understand, more to do and more to improve.
“We are constantly reviewing our reporting arrangements, particularly relating to patient safety incidents.
“We are confident that our culture of reporting is improving which we believe will be reflected as we go forward.”



Also, this from The Times Aug 2023 ( This point about the classification of first murders relates back to Dr Gibbs Thirlwall testimony)

https://archive.ph/8hXvE

bit more on the classification of first murders, The Times again, later in Aug 2023 https://archive.ph/lbR7y

On under-reporting and misreporting - hopefully we should hear more about that in today's hearing.

 

[Parker Knoll]

The transcripts for the 14/10 finally up.

 

[Sweeper2000]

They don't have an excuse. Not following on from tc in 2014. So badddd. How is it that they filed those deaths as "med errors" when there as far as I know is nothing to suggest it? That's an outright lie isn't it? Someone's playing with the stats and fitting the input to make a false picture. Ohhhhh dear Someone's got babies blood on their hands in addition to the fiend.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Looks like we are right folks. She's been at it before those years.

"New evidence seen by the BBC suggests more babies in Lucy Letby’s care were harmed – and in one case poisoned with insulin."

"Panorama has also discovered that potentially life-threatening incidents involving infants occurred on almost a third of Letby’s 33 shifts while she was training at Liverpool Women's Hospital in 2012 and 2015."

Google News

Comprehensive, up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

Apologies if already posted and known.

 

[Highlandspring]

Please may I ask a Q?
Are many members of this thread still adamant LL is guilty?

You mean it's not obvious?

If there are any Camp Innocents left here they no longer post. There are a good few alternatives for them.

 

[cottonweaver]

You mean it's not obvious?

If there are any Camp Innocents left here they no longer post. There are a good few alternatives for them.

I do think they still lurk and browse here.
It's one of the reasons I want to get some of the Thirwall 'testimony' down in black & white here

 

[Marantz4250b]

Looks like we are right folks. She's been at it before those years.

"New evidence seen by the BBC suggests more babies in Lucy Letby’s care were harmed – and in one case poisoned with insulin."

"Panorama has also discovered that potentially life-threatening incidents involving infants occurred on almost a third of Letby’s 33 shifts while she was training at Liverpool Women's Hospital in 2012 and 2015."

Google News

Comprehensive, up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

Apologies if already posted and known.

I get the feeling that we're going to get further and further back in her life, probably prior to her nursing career.

My suspicion is that there are potentially some dark things in her past, possibly from a very young age, which are known only to a tiny number of people - such as her and her parents.

Wonder if we'll see anything from her medical history revealed?

 

[Parker Knoll]

I think fwiw it is contained within her family and it will never come out.
The dynamics between them are so off.
Jmo

 

[Tortoise]

I think you're right.

As we've discussed before, though, I'm not sure that charging her with more would be the right thing to do. She's never getting out and I can't see any real public interest in bringing further charges. She can't be punished any more than she already is and there is no public safety issue to address.

Unless they come up with some very strong reasoning, I think that bringing more charges would be hard to justify.

That depends on whether there are children living with resultant disabilities, and clearly families who were not given the true cause of their babies' deaths. IMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Anyway,

Karen Rees, yesterday, starts on page 26
https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Thirlwall-Inquiry-21-October-2024.pdf

'Testimony' starts with her career history. Cardiology and Ex theatre manager. Ward manager. All prior exp was adult patients and accepts she's got no NN expertise.

Pages 29-31 of the PDF
So she has no exp of Neo-natal meds but thinks Eirian Powell is an expert in NN forensic med & that EP is in a position to determine causes of death in this very niche, specialized area. ( Does she really believe this or does it suit to pretend that? IDK)
In quality management -speak all this is mischaracterised as ' assurance' (& note use of ' might have' explained sudden collapse )
RH column - no, ' I didn't question Eirian's expertise because she'd been a long time in that role'

Page 30 . Karen Rees then deflects with ' hindsight is a wonderful thing' ( IMO a Director of Nursing doesn't need hindsight to realize that EP was simply not in a position to know why many of the babies had died)
Note that Langdale also bats back on the ' infections' defense by pointing out that Karen Rees actually sat on QSPEC ( Infection is still a particular favorite of the Letby truthers)

page 31. When probed on why Karen Rees hadn't asked for specifics per child, KR admits she hadn't and then says it was somebody else's area of expertise. So she does recognize expertise matters. (However, we already know that when senior clinicians gave their expert suggestions, it was later dismissed by KR. )
It's a common occurrence in KR's evidence imo. She often wants it both ways

 

[cottonweaver]

They don't have an excuse. Not following on from tc in 2014. So badddd. How is it that they filed those deaths as "med errors" when there as far as I know is nothing to suggest it? That's an outright lie isn't it? Someone's playing with the stats and fitting the input to make a false picture. Ohhhhh dear Someone's got babies blood on their hands in addition to the fiend.

IDK the answers. Those members who've been following the LL case longer will have a better idea. I just included the screenshots because one of the paragraphs cropped up when I was trying to find a date on another subject.

 

[Anxala]

That depends on whether there are children living with resultant disabilities, and clearly families who were not given the true cause of their babies' deaths. IMO

Agree. This is about the babies and their parents' right to know, not about further punishment for LL. And particularly, as you say, if any of those babies survived and have special needs. They and their families equally deserve to benefit from any resultant compensation that happens down the line.