GUILTY UK - Lucy McHugh, 13, murdered,, Southampton, 25 July 2018

[Tortoise]

Not that it's very relevant I don't think to the murder, but I was just trying to put together a timeline and noticed a small discrepancy.

Prosecutor told jury in opening statements that on Monday 23rd July SN was staying at his mothers, after having been asked to leave Lucy's home, and went back to feed his reptiles. That is when he argued with Lucy and she shouted out of the window. Today RE testified that was when he asked SN to leave. Unless he means he asked him to leave again, even though he'd moved back to his mum's already.

We also had Dawn White testifying that she heard SN shouting at Lucy (unspecified date - different argument) and told SN to leave the house.

And on the same day (23rd) SN told a friend that Lucy was trying to get him thrown out of the house.

I wonder if he was ever actually told to leave - permanently.

 

[Joolz1975]

I'm a little wary of these messages from SN about Lucy following him around and grabbing him.

I feel like he was sending those messages in an attempt to make himself look like he wasn't to blame if things ever became public.

The whole things read more like SN and Lucy were in a consensual but inappropriate relationship, school calling parents in and social services etc... but she's so young why does it appear to have been dealt with so lightly? Surely the police should have been called and it been dealt with as a rape case (or have I missed that).

 

[Alyce]

Not that it's very relevant I don't think to the murder, but I was just trying to put together a timeline and noticed a small discrepancy.

Prosecutor told jury in opening statements that on Monday 23rd July SN was staying at his mothers, after having been asked to leave Lucy's home, and went back to feed his reptiles. That is when he argued with Lucy and she shouted out of the window. Today RE testified that was when he asked SN to leave. Unless he means he asked him to leave again, even though he'd moved back to his mum's already.

We also had Dawn White testifying that she heard SN shouting at Lucy (unspecified date - different argument) and told SN to leave the house.

And on the same day (23rd) SN told a friend that Lucy was trying to get him thrown out of the house.

I wonder if he was ever actually told to leave - permanently.

Mr Newton-Price suggests that the argument, in which Lucy said she "had a hold" on Nicholson, took place on a different day to the one Mr Elmes suggested. Mr Elmes replies "no"

Defence counsel seems to be questioning the date - or dates - as well.

 

[Alyce]

Link for today

LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

The trial restarts. Richard Elmes is in the witness box. James Newton-Price QC will resume his cross-examination.

Mr Newton-Price begins by asking if Mr Elmes ever found notes written by Lucy about sexual acts prior to her death in July 2018.
He replies "no".

Mr Newton-Price asks Mr Elmes about Lucy asking about a blue tub, said to contain cannabis, that the teenager supposedly found in a cupboard in the kitchen.
Mr Elmes replies that the tub did not contain cannabis.

Mr Newton-Price asks if Nicholson was a cannabis dealer.
Mr Elmes replies "yes".
He asks if he was aware customers would come to the house.
Mr Elmes replied: "Not at first, no."

Mr Newton-Price asks Mr Elmes if Lucy ever complained about Nicholson's cannabis dealing.
He replies: "She never complained to me about it."

Mr Newton-Price continues to probe Mr Elmes about the box in the kitchen and refers to messages between Mr Elmes and Lucy's mother Stacey.
Mr Newton-Price said: "What you are saying in that sequence of texts messages is that Lucy was very well aware about Stephen dealing cannabis and she didn't like it and the cannabis was moved from the kitchen because she was rummaging around."
Mr Elmes replied: "No, the cannabis was always kept in Stephen's room."

Mr Newton-Price suggests that the argument, in which Lucy said she "had a hold" on Nicholson, took place on a different day to the one Mr Elmes suggested.
Mr Elmes replies "no".


LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price now begins to ask Mr Elmes about his search history on the day of Lucy's disappearance.

Mr Newton-Price tells the court that Mr Elmes carried out searches for "lost Samsung phone" and "find my phone Samsung" around 12.21pm on July 25.

Mr Newton-Price said Nicholson had a Samsung phone.

Mr Elmes replies that he was searching for a neighbour who had lost a Samsung phone - which he says has never been recovered.

Mr Newton-Price tells the court that in a statement made to the police in December, Mr Elmes told officers he did not remember carrying out the searches on the phone.
Mr Elmes replies that he did not remember at the time but later made an addendum.


LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks Alyce. I'll copy over some of the reporting.

ETA, no I won't, just seen you've done it.

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price now asks why, around the same time, Mr Elmes searched "do the hospital keep patient's blood tests after death?" and "how to get DNA off a dead body".
Mr Elmes replied that he was in an inheritance dispute about his father's estate.

Mr Newton-Price also asks why Mr Elmes searched for Eric Robinson solicitors.
Mr Elmes said they were the solicitors dealing with the dispute - which he says is still ongoing.


LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price now asks about a letter that Stacey White found in Lucy's room the night of her disappearance.
He asks if Mr Elmes knew about the note.

He replies "I didn't at the time but I do now".

Mr Newton-Price asks if he read the letter.

Mr Elmes replied "no".

He asked what Mr Elmes did with the letter.

Mr Elmes replies: "I burnt it".

He said he used lighter fuel to burn the letter.

The court is now shown CCTV from a neighbour showing a flare up at the house, which Mr Newton-Price says is the letter being burned.

Mr Elmes says he always burns important letters because he is worried about identity theft.

The court hears the letter is from a bank and is a pin number letter addressed to Nicholson.

LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price asks about a number of phone calls made between Nicholson and Mr Elmes on the day Lucy's body was found.

Mr Newton-Price asks if Mr Elmes had told Nicholson that Lucy's body was found near Redhill Road, where Mr Elmes had a crash on his bike.
Mr Elmes said that he did not say that to Nicholson. He also said that his crash was on Pointout Road and said it "further proved" that this was not said.


LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price asks if he read the letter.
Mr Elmes replied "no".

He asked what Mr Elmes did with the letter.
Mr Elmes replies: "I burnt it".

Mr Elmes says he always burns important letters because he is worried about identity theft.


Am stating the obvious here - but how did RE know it was important if he didn't read it ?

 

[Alyce]

Lucy's body was found near Redhill Road, where Mr Elmes had a crash on his bike.
Mr Elmes said that his crash was on Pointout Road

They are both close to the sports centre


Google Maps

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price asks about a sex toy found in Nicholson's room, by Mr Elmes, on August 4.

Mr Newton-Price tells the court the police had carried out a "thorough search" of Nicholson's room on July 31.

Mr Elmes said the police had not searched behind a cabinet, where he had found it.


LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today


how does RE know what the police did or did not do ?

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price now asks about a letter, written by Lucy, that was found in a lighter pot in Mr Elmes' drawer in his room.

He said the lighters had not been used in four years.

He said he had never discussed a letter like this with Nicholson and the first letter he had seen was the letter titled "Abuse" - which was referred to earlier in the trial.

 

[Alyce]

On a break - the trial, not me

 

[Alyce]

12.03 hrs
Mr Elmes returns to the witness box.
Prosecutor William Mousley QC will now ask some questions from points raised in cross-examination by Mr Newton-Price.

Mr Mousley begins by asking about Nicholson's behaviour towards Lucy in the week leading up to July 25.
Mr Elmes said there were "petty arguments" and one or two bigger arguments, which he said were dealt with accordingly.

Asked if Nicholson had shown kindness towards Lucy that week.
Mr Elmes said: "Yes, he had offered to sort out her bedroom door."

He asked about Nicholson's behaviour on June 23.
Mr Elmes tells the court that Nicholson was "volatile" and that's why he was asked to leave.

LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

Mr Mousley asks Mr Elmes about the search history for trying to find a Samsung mobile on his phone on July 25.

Mr Elmes confirms he was helping a neighbour who had lost his phone "a week or two" before Lucy's disappearance.
He said he had made the search previously and on July 25.



LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

Mr Elmes also told the court he still had an email chain with Eric Robinson solicitors about his inheritance dispute.




LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today

 

[Alyce]

In the week leading up to July 25 - Mr Elmes said there were "petty arguments" and one or two bigger arguments


More like a daily occurence then, rather than the occasional dispute

 

[Alyce]

Mr Mousley asks where Mr Elmes was on July 25. He asks if Mr Elmes was at the Sports Centre at any point.

He says "no". Mr Elmes confirms he was at home looking after the children all day.
He said he was visited by a number of people, including Nicholson, who visited around 3pm.

LIVE: 'She was a lovely, bubbly, bright, intelligent girl': Lucy McHugh trial continues today