GUILTY UK - Lucy McHugh, 13, murdered,, Southampton, 25 July 2018

[Alyce]

2:54pm
Nicholson's defence barrister James Newton-Price QC is now cross-examining the witness.

He asks Ms Griffiths if fibres can transfer in a washing pile, in a wash or in the tumble drier.
She replies that it is possible if there has been direct contact between two items. She describes it as "secondary transfer".


LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

 

[Alyce]

Mr Mousley now asks another question of Ms Griffiths - referring to Mr Newton Price's question about "secondary transfer".

Ms Griffiths replies that if there are five matching fibres found, then experts cannot rule out a secondary transfer. But she tells the court that there were over 100 matching fibres were found - including between Lucy McHugh's jacket and the blue hooded jumper found at Tanners Brook.

She adds: "This indicates it is not from secondary transfer, but from direct contact."


LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

 

[Tortoise]

Mr Mousley now asks another question of Ms Griffiths - referring to Mr Newton Price's question about "secondary transfer".

Ms Griffiths replies that if there are five matching fibres found, then experts cannot rule out a secondary transfer. But she tells the court that there were over 100 matching fibres were found - including between Lucy McHugh's jacket and the blue hooded jumper found at Tanners Brook.

She adds: "This indicates it is not from secondary transfer, but from direct contact."


LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

I wonder if Lucy was found wearing her jacket, because she'd taken it off on her journey there.

 

[Alyce]

3:04pm
Ms Griffiths has now finished giving evidence.

Forensic scientist Lisa Johnson is now called to give evidence.
She inspected a pair of black tracksuit bottoms found at Tanners Brook.

She tells the jury that DNA evidence showed it was one billion times more likely that the DNA on the tracksuit bottoms was that of Nicholson's DNA than that of another person.



LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

 

[Alyce]

The court is now told about a pair of black boxer shorts, found with a bloodstain in the crotch area.

Ms Johnson tells the court that the DNA had a mixed profile - with the major contributor likely being Lucy McHugh.
She said it was one billion times more likely to be DNA of Lucy McHugh than another unrelated female.

She also tells the court there was evidence of a DNA from a male, likely to be Stephen Nicholson.

Asked where she thought the blood had originated from, she replied that the blood could have been distributed during or after sexual intercourse - given the location of the blood.


LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

 

[Tortoise]

3:04pm
Ms Griffiths has now finished giving evidence.

Forensic scientist Lisa Johnson is now called to give evidence.
She inspected a pair of black tracksuit bottoms found at Tanners Brook.

She tells the jury that DNA evidence showed it was one billion times more likely that the DNA on the tracksuit bottoms was that of Nicholson's DNA than that of another person.



LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

Ah so it seems she was wearing black trousers, not camouflage leggings.

 

[Tortoise]

The court is now told about a pair of black boxer shorts, found with a bloodstain in the crotch area.

Ms Johnson tells the court that the DNA had a mixed profile - with the major contributor likely being Lucy McHugh.
She said it was one billion times more likely to be DNA of Lucy McHugh than another unrelated female.

She also tells the court there was evidence of a DNA from a male, likely to be Stephen Nicholson.

Asked where she thought the blood had originated from, she replied that the blood could have been distributed during or after sexual intercourse - given the location of the blood.


LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

This is very confusing - they said there was no sexual assault at the time of the murder, and he hadn't been at the house for a few days.

 

[Alyce]

3:17pm
Mr Newton-Price is now cross-examining the witness.

He asks if it is possible for the boxer shorts to have previously been worn by Nicholson before Lucy had worn them.

She replies that it is possible.

Mr Mousley now asks if DNA on the boxer shorts could have survived a wash.

Ms Johnson replies that it is unlikely that any of the DNA would have survived a wash.





LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

 

[Alyce]

3:27pm

The court now takes a short break.

 

[Alyce]

Oh to be in court and be able to follow the full testimony.

It is getting muddled ( for me ) re the jog bottoms and boxer shorts - is it Lucy wearing them or are they saying SN was wearing them ?
Lucy certainly looked as though she was wearing black jogs/trousers when she goes past the cctv in Wimpson Lane and past the fence cctv - but then she is wearing camouflage jogs when she goes past Tescos.

 

[Tortoise]

She tells the jury that DNA evidence showed it was one billion times more likely that the DNA on the tracksuit bottoms was that of Nicholson's DNA than that of another person.

then there's this -

Mrs Adby said that no matches to the defendant were found on Lucy's jacket or vest top but she added that he "could be a minor contributor" to a sample from her leggings which was made up of the DNA from five people.

Lucy McHugh murder accused 'dumped clothing with DNA links to schoolgirl'

Then there was also this from the same reporting - Mrs Adby added that no semen was found on any of the clothing.

 

[Alyce]

Wondering if this is why the Prosecution has called 2 separate forensic people to give evidence, as they certainly don't seem to be agreeing on the details.

 

[Alyce]

3:41pm
A new witness is now called. A police staff employee who worked as an intelligence researcher on Operation Refund - the police's investigation into Lucy McHugh's death.

The court is shown a photograph of Nicholson wearing what appear to be the same or similar tracksuit bottoms to those found at Tanners Brook. The photograph was in cloud-based data on Nicholson's Google account.



LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

 

[Alyce]

Mr Newton-Price QC now cross-examines the witness.
He asks if she was tasked with finding evidence of a claim by Nicholson that he was involved in dealing cannabis.
She confirms she was.
He asks if she found anything.
She replies: "I did find quite a bit of evidence."

Mr Newton-Price asks if the police staff employee said in her report that this evidence may have supported Nicholson's claim that he got rid of his phone because of his drug dealing.
She confirms she did



LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: 'Dumped clothes had DNA link to alleged killer on them'

 

[Alyce]

3:54pm

That ends today's evidence. The trial is adjourned until 10.30am tomorrow.

 

[Kasmeer]

Head exploding around the different clothes, I made a quick list to get them into one post, probably missed some details though:

Lucy's body:
Jacket - DNA: Lucy + unknown others male+female
White top - DNA: SN "low level"
Leggings - DNA: 5 people, SN "low level"

Tanners Brook:
Underpants waistband, partially burnt, no DNA
Blue hoody, blood, mixed DNA: Lucy high match, SN lower match
Gloves found in hoody pocket, DNA: SN
Black tracksuit bottoms DNA: SN

Unknown source?
Black boxer shorts, bloodstained, DNA: Lucy very high, SN probable

SN t-shirt+jeans (worn on CCTV) - no blood

Lucy jacket+Tanners brook hoody - matching fibres, suggesting worn together


So, the tracksuit bottoms: SN wasn't wearing them on the CCTV, Lucy wasn't wearing them, they presumably belong to SN, why are they in with the other clothes? The blue hoody I presume belongs to Lucy (is it really too hard for anyone to say what size clothing is, to indicate who it might belong to?), while in its pocket were gloves presumably used by SN, and found with SN's tracksuit trousers. Points one way, but there seems no "smoking gun", no items with both people's DNA in high amounts; they lived in the same household so some DNA transfer is expected.

I hope RE has a very good alibi, and that alibi is given to the court, or else I can see "reasonable doubt" coming into this; the defence is clearly trying to suggest that SN isn't the only possibility, and it certainly wouldn't be impossible for someone who lives in the same house as both to place their belongings together in an attempt to frame someone. I don't really think that's what's happened, but neither do I think it's impossible based on the evidence so far.

 

[Alyce]

Kasmeer, thanks so much for that list - my head is also spinning trying to keep check on it all

I thought the blue hoody was SNs, but we had another person, SB, giving testimony last week to say that the hoody originally belonged to him, but that he lost it several years ago. So that could be a grey area as to how it ended up with Lucy's DNA on it, particularly if SN is denying it is his ( no idea if he is denying or not, just surmising here ).
And the tracksuit bottoms don't seem to have been worn by either of them on that day, far as cctv tells us.

 

[Kasmeer]

I thought the blue hoody was SNs, but we had another person, SB, giving testimony last week to say that the hoody originally belonged to him, but that he lost it several years ago. So that could be a grey area as to how it ended up with Lucy's DNA on it, particularly if SN is denying it is his ( no idea if he is denying or not, just surmising here ).

I'd forgotten that testimony! So that makes it even more confusing, especially as I don't think either was wearing it in the CCTV? I'd assumed Lucy had been wearing it (at some point) due to the fibres testimony regarding it matching her jacket, as though it'd been worn under the jacket... but then have we ever been told the jacket is hers, or was it just found at her body? Hard to work out where all these clothes fit into the big picture, especially as there's zero info about sizing, which would at least definitively identify Lucy's own clothes (she might wear an adult's clothes if she felt like it, but no adult male could get into clothes sized for a 13-year-old girl).

 

[Tortoise]

I'd forgotten that testimony! So that makes it even more confusing, especially as I don't think either was wearing it in the CCTV? I'd assumed Lucy had been wearing it (at some point) due to the fibres testimony regarding it matching her jacket, as though it'd been worn under the jacket... but then have we ever been told the jacket is hers, or was it just found at her body? Hard to work out where all these clothes fit into the big picture, especially as there's zero info about sizing, which would at least definitively identify Lucy's own clothes (she might wear an adult's clothes if she felt like it, but no adult male could get into clothes sized for a 13-year-old girl).

I thought the blue hoody fibres were inside his coat. I'll have a look back for the post I saw.

Post #519 :
She also tells the court that fibres from blue hooded jumper were "indistinguishable" from fibres found inside a black jacket, belonging to Nicholson.

Ms Griffiths tells the court: "In my opinion, the fibre evidence shows very strong support that the hoodie and jacket had been worn together with the jacket worn on top of the blue hoodie."

ETA: and they were also on Lucy's jacket post #522:-

But she tells the court that there were over 100 matching fibres were found - including between Lucy McHugh's jacket and the blue hooded jumper found at Tanners Brook.

 

[SJ16321]

11.06 am

Ms Adby continues to give evidence. The details at this point are graphic and therefore we will not be reporting them.



LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial continues today

Does this sort of thing in our UK press annoy anyone else?

By all means put up a warning, but I'm an adult. I can make my own decisions on whether I can take reading something that's graphic!

It would be great if it was like in the States where they can show video from the court as with UK cases you miss so much and it's hard sometimes to piece together what's actually being said/happening.