Elainera
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It's not clear to me what his alleged motive is. Because she said she might be pregnant?
GUILTY UK - Lucy McHugh, 13, murdered,, Southampton, 25 July 2018
- Thread starter Coconutmilk
- Start date
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MD MD - Frank Thomas Christensen, USAF, 20, Missing 8 July 1977
- Latest: Rockwellinvestigates.com
It's not clear to me what his alleged motive is. Because she said she might be pregnant?
Thanks Alyce.
I think there are two pieces of evidence that might tip this into guilty. One is the fibres from the hoodie being inside his coat. The other is being at Tanner's Brook which is where the clothes were dumped, and not saying he went there in his first police interview. Someone would have had to have been following him about, but he was carrying a bag. A third and fourth might be Lucy asking to see him and the claimed pregnancy giving him motive, and him just happening to be sick from work but also out and about at Tesco that morning.
Problem is Lucy didn't create her new Facebook account until the evening before, which was when she messaged him about meeting. He was already off sick and ordering new trainers. Unless it was him that asked to meet her.
I think there are two pieces of evidence that might tip this into guilty. One is the fibres from the hoodie being inside his coat. The other is being at Tanner's Brook which is where the clothes were dumped, and not saying he went there in his first police interview. Someone would have had to have been following him about, but he was carrying a bag. A third and fourth might be Lucy asking to see him and the claimed pregnancy giving him motive, and him just happening to be sick from work but also out and about at Tesco that morning.
Problem is Lucy didn't create her new Facebook account until the evening before, which was when she messaged him about meeting. He was already off sick and ordering new trainers. Unless it was him that asked to meet her.
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The hoodie fibres are the strongest thing they have imo. Defence could argue that Lucy had worn the hoodie previously but that would not explain fibres on her body that day. SN is denying the hoodie belongs to him ( far as I can make out from the limited testimony we have heard ) so it is harder for him/defence to explain how the fibres got inside his jacket.
Tanners Brook I think could be explained by him saying it was a drug deal and he didn't want to compromise himself initially.
The only FB info we have ( so it seems ) is that provided in testimony by SN, so it is his word against no one's that Lucy messaged him and not the other way round.
He went off sick on the Tuesday so I think it's reasonable to say he might have been feeling better by the Wednesday - although I wouldn't personally recommend a large bottle of Dr Pepper if I were just getting over a tummy bug. But that's just me and he could say it was for his friend.
With the trainers - most care homes have fairly strict rules re footwear and colour so I can accept his explanation that he needed a new black pair of trainers as it was not acceptable to wear his grey ones.
What doesn't quite fit for me is that he burns the grey pair as soon as he gets the new black pair - because, strangely, he has also managed to split the grey pair, just like he did with his old black pair.
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James Robinson @dailyechojames 20m20 minutes ago
Yesterday, the prosecution in the Lucy McHugh murder trial gave a closing speech. Today, Stephen Nicholson's defence barrister is set to present his closing speech. Jury members are expected to begin deliberations tomorrow morning:
Yesterday, the prosecution in the Lucy McHugh murder trial gave a closing speech. Today, Stephen Nicholson's defence barrister is set to present his closing speech. Jury members are expected to begin deliberations tomorrow morning:
10:21am
The court rises as the judge walks in. Nicholson's defence barrister, James Newton-Price, begins his closing speech.
10:22am
He begins by describing Lucy's death as a "shocking and dreadful event".
10:23am
Mr Newton-Price tells the jury that it is normal to feel "anger and emotion" over the death of a 13-year-old girl.
10:24am
But he asks them to put emotion aside and asks them to make a "cool, rational and unemotional assessment of the evidence as it stands."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
The court rises as the judge walks in. Nicholson's defence barrister, James Newton-Price, begins his closing speech.
10:22am
He begins by describing Lucy's death as a "shocking and dreadful event".
10:23am
Mr Newton-Price tells the jury that it is normal to feel "anger and emotion" over the death of a 13-year-old girl.
10:24am
But he asks them to put emotion aside and asks them to make a "cool, rational and unemotional assessment of the evidence as it stands."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
10:28am
Mr Newton-Price sets out a brief outline of his speech to the jury. He mentions specific points including DNA evidence and the discovery of a bag of blood-covered clothing, with links to Nicholson and Lucy. He adds that he will invite the jury to "look at what evidence does not quite fit with the theory put forward by the prosecution".
10:32am
He begins talking about the allegation made against Nicholson by a girl who claimed she had sex with Nicholson when she was 14.
10:32am
Mr Newton-Price says it amounts to "her word against his (Nicholson's)".
10:33am
He also tells the jury members that the girl's "story has changed in important details".
10:35am
Mr Newton-Price said the incident took place more than six years ago, making it impossible to check evidence, including CCTV and work rotas. He said: "Nothing can be checked out now."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price sets out a brief outline of his speech to the jury. He mentions specific points including DNA evidence and the discovery of a bag of blood-covered clothing, with links to Nicholson and Lucy. He adds that he will invite the jury to "look at what evidence does not quite fit with the theory put forward by the prosecution".
10:32am
He begins talking about the allegation made against Nicholson by a girl who claimed she had sex with Nicholson when she was 14.
10:32am
Mr Newton-Price says it amounts to "her word against his (Nicholson's)".
10:33am
He also tells the jury members that the girl's "story has changed in important details".
10:35am
Mr Newton-Price said the incident took place more than six years ago, making it impossible to check evidence, including CCTV and work rotas. He said: "Nothing can be checked out now."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
10:38am
Mr Newton-Price said: "The difference between what she told you and what she told her friends are what I would suggest as troubling."
He adds: "Is it evidence you can safely rely on or be sure of?"
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price said: "The difference between what she told you and what she told her friends are what I would suggest as troubling."
He adds: "Is it evidence you can safely rely on or be sure of?"
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
10:40am
Talking about the prosecution's suggestion that the alleged incident showed Nicholson had an interest in underage girls, he tells the jury: "The prosecution, I would submit, are taking somewhat of a nudge-nudge-wink-wink approach. We would submit that is a dangerous approach."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Talking about the prosecution's suggestion that the alleged incident showed Nicholson had an interest in underage girls, he tells the jury: "The prosecution, I would submit, are taking somewhat of a nudge-nudge-wink-wink approach. We would submit that is a dangerous approach."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
10:46am
Mr Newton-Price addresses the prosecution's suggestion that Nicholson had an interest in underage girls. He said Nicholson had consensual sex with three women, older than 16, during the time period of the prosecution's case.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price addresses the prosecution's suggestion that Nicholson had an interest in underage girls. He said Nicholson had consensual sex with three women, older than 16, during the time period of the prosecution's case.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
10:47am
Mr Newton-Price now addresses the letters and notes written by Lucy.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price now addresses the letters and notes written by Lucy.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
10:48am
He said they are not in a diary format. He tells the court that some are in envelopes addressed to Nicholson. He suggests that Nicholson never found any letters, as none were found in his room or on his person.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
He said they are not in a diary format. He tells the court that some are in envelopes addressed to Nicholson. He suggests that Nicholson never found any letters, as none were found in his room or on his person.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
10:50am
Speaking about the letters found in Lucy's parent's room, he said: "I find it extraordinary that Richard Elmes denies knowledge or seeing any notes of this kind when these were found in a bedside cabinet in his room."
10:51am
Mr Newton-Price tells the jury the allegations of rape by Nicholson against Lucy "stand or fall on whether you are sure what's said in these letters is true".
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Speaking about the letters found in Lucy's parent's room, he said: "I find it extraordinary that Richard Elmes denies knowledge or seeing any notes of this kind when these were found in a bedside cabinet in his room."
10:51am
Mr Newton-Price tells the jury the allegations of rape by Nicholson against Lucy "stand or fall on whether you are sure what's said in these letters is true".
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Elainera
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Ah here we go. I wonder how far he will go in his attempt to create reasonable doubt. Or will he also just employ a "nudge nudge wink wink" approach?
10:58am
Mr Newton-Price tells the jury: "Is it so impossible to suggest these writings are the imagination or fantasy of an adolescent young woman?"
He adds: "Is that such a fanciful suggestion?"
11:01am
Mr Newton-Price speaks about Nicholson giving evidence. He said he may have come across as "immature" and "not very discreet".
He said Nicholson's description to the jury of an injury relating to his intimate piercing as "cringeworthy".
11:02am
He suggests to the jury that Lucy may have picked up on that. He said that Lucy also looked at Nicholson's Facebook profile. He said Nicholson had shared information about his intimate piercing on Facebook.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price tells the jury: "Is it so impossible to suggest these writings are the imagination or fantasy of an adolescent young woman?"
He adds: "Is that such a fanciful suggestion?"
11:01am
Mr Newton-Price speaks about Nicholson giving evidence. He said he may have come across as "immature" and "not very discreet".
He said Nicholson's description to the jury of an injury relating to his intimate piercing as "cringeworthy".
11:02am
He suggests to the jury that Lucy may have picked up on that. He said that Lucy also looked at Nicholson's Facebook profile. He said Nicholson had shared information about his intimate piercing on Facebook.
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
That's true11:03am
Mr Newton-Price now talks about Nicholson's complaints to Lucy's parents about Lucy's behaviour towards him, including suggestions she had a crush on Nicholson.
11:06am
He said: "If there was an intimate sexual relationship going on then why would he complain so loudly and so continuously about the attention she was giving him?
He adds: "If there was a relationship going surely he would want to keep it quiet, not draw attention to it."
11:07am
Mr Newton-Price now talks about a number of claims that Lucy made to school friends. These include claims that she was pregnant, claims she had tattoos and claims she had an abortion. He also mentions claims Lucy made that "Stephen" was her boyfriend.
11:08am
He describes it as "classic teenage attention-seeking".
11:10am
Mr Newton-Price adds: "The pathologist said she was not pregnant and she did not have any tattoos."
He adds: "We submit that many of these claims, if not all of them, are things that provably did not happen."
11:12am
He adds: "Writing things and saying things to friends does not make things true. That's all the prosecution's case rests on, those notes."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price now talks about Nicholson's complaints to Lucy's parents about Lucy's behaviour towards him, including suggestions she had a crush on Nicholson.
11:06am
He said: "If there was an intimate sexual relationship going on then why would he complain so loudly and so continuously about the attention she was giving him?
He adds: "If there was a relationship going surely he would want to keep it quiet, not draw attention to it."
11:07am
Mr Newton-Price now talks about a number of claims that Lucy made to school friends. These include claims that she was pregnant, claims she had tattoos and claims she had an abortion. He also mentions claims Lucy made that "Stephen" was her boyfriend.
11:08am
He describes it as "classic teenage attention-seeking".
11:10am
Mr Newton-Price adds: "The pathologist said she was not pregnant and she did not have any tattoos."
He adds: "We submit that many of these claims, if not all of them, are things that provably did not happen."
11:12am
He adds: "Writing things and saying things to friends does not make things true. That's all the prosecution's case rests on, those notes."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
11:17am
Mr Newton-Price talks about claims made by a schoolfriend of Lucy that she had told her about a time a drunk and high Nicholson had tried to get into her room at night and she had barricaded herself in her room.
11:19am
He said there were "major problems with that story", including that it had taken place at night with other people in the house. He said the prosecution could see it as a "product Lucy's imagination".
11:20am
Mr Newton-Price said Lucy was "desperate for attention".
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price talks about claims made by a schoolfriend of Lucy that she had told her about a time a drunk and high Nicholson had tried to get into her room at night and she had barricaded herself in her room.
11:19am
He said there were "major problems with that story", including that it had taken place at night with other people in the house. He said the prosecution could see it as a "product Lucy's imagination".
11:20am
Mr Newton-Price said Lucy was "desperate for attention".
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
11:28am
Mr Newton-Price refers to yesterday's closing speech by the prosecution. He said: "The prosecution says you can be sure, but I have concerns."
11:30am
He now moves to motive. He said that in yesterday's speech, the prosecution alleged Nicholson had killed Lucy to "silence her" after she had made a threat to tell people she was pregnant.
11:32am
He said that Lucy had been "telling people for months" that she was pregnant. He said: "Really, she had been saying that kind of thing to anyone who would listen to her for months. It was nothing new Lucy saying these things."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
Mr Newton-Price refers to yesterday's closing speech by the prosecution. He said: "The prosecution says you can be sure, but I have concerns."
11:30am
He now moves to motive. He said that in yesterday's speech, the prosecution alleged Nicholson had killed Lucy to "silence her" after she had made a threat to tell people she was pregnant.
11:32am
He said that Lucy had been "telling people for months" that she was pregnant. He said: "Really, she had been saying that kind of thing to anyone who would listen to her for months. It was nothing new Lucy saying these things."
LIVE: Lucy McHugh murder trial: Defence to make closing speech today
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