Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[CoverMeCagney]

I think all the evidence shows that these two are complete and utter idiots.

Case closed, your honour. Send them down!

 

[Jason-d-h-1990]

I have been following this case carefully. My heart hurts for poor Margaret.

I picked up on the BBC report that "Both deny murdering Margaret, when she was 19, at the home they shared in Inverkip or elsewhere in Scotland".

How significant is the "or elsewhere in Scotland" perhaps the other site searched in Ayrshire combined with the specialists in human remains cited? JMO

 

[AnnesCuthberts]

"Margaret Fleming murder trial abandoned at High Court in Glasgow
> Crown say that a retrial will commence at later date"
Russell Findlay on Twitter

Just seen this on Twitter (tweeter is an investigation journalist). Murder trial is abandoned? Forgive my ignorance, but does anyone know what that means?

 

[Legally Bland]

"Margaret Fleming murder trial abandoned at High Court in Glasgow
> Crown say that a retrial will commence at later date"
Russell Findlay on Twitter

Just seen this on Twitter (tweeter is an investigation journalist). Murder trial is abandoned? Forgive my ignorance, but does anyone know what that means?

No idea what's happened. If it's something legal there's a good chance we won't find out either.

I wonder if they'll be bailed until the retrial now?

 

[Legally Bland]

More here, not sure it makes things any clearer. I wonder what the new indictment is?
______________

The trial, which was in its third week, was dramatically halted at the High Court in Glasgow this afternoon.

No explanation was given in court for the trial collapsing, but judge Lord Matthews said that it was no fault of either the prosecution or defence counsel.

Lord Matthews said: “I will desert the trial pro loco et tempore.

"As a result of circumstances we can't proceed.

"It is highly unfortunate all this has arisen.

Prosecutor Iain McSporran QC said: “I move for the trial to be deserted and for a fresh preliminary hearing and fresh trial to be set.

"I also think a brand new indictment.”

Defence QC Thomas Ross has applied for bail for his client Cairney.

This will be decided tomorrow.

Margaret Fleming murder trial collapses

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What the heck?!?

Hopefully Avril has confessed everything and/or they’ve found Margaret

 

[Ironside]

Argh! had arranged a few days off to go to the trial next week! I'll have to unarrange now.

Hopefully trial number three will start fairly soon.

 

[JerricaBenton]

It sounds as if new evidence has been found, which would mean different charges. Maybe, as mentioned, they have found remains or had a confession from someone.

 

[Jason-d-h-1990]

Lets all hope its been halted as a consequence of "positive" new circumstances. Poor Margaret has suffered enough injustices.

Not going to lie though, was looking forward to hearing more about the case!

 

[bluebird69]

Doesn't sound like a confession to me. Per LB post above the judge said "it is highly unfortunate all this has arisen. "Has she really turned up in Poland or wherever they said she was?!? Not a chance imo

 

[Ironside]

I think there is more chance of Margaret turning up then Eddie getting bail in the morning!

 

[Satchie]

Doesn't sound like a confession to me. Per LB post above the judge said "it is highly unfortunate all this has arisen. "Has she really turned up in Poland or wherever they said she was?!? Not a chance imo

I'm worried, too, that something's gone sideways with the prosecution's case.

Why would Cairney apply for bail and not Jones? If the charges were reduced to benefits fraud, it appears to be Jones who took all the initiative around that.

 

[Jason-d-h-1990]

I'm worried, too, that something's gone sideways with the prosecution's case.

Why would Cairney apply for bail and not Jones? If the charges were reduced to benefits fraud, it appears to be Jones who took all the initiative around that.

Maybe they've found something that incriminates Jones and not Cairney - DNA? And maybe Jones isn't able to be considered for bail

Surely if it was benefit fraud both would stand equally charged as both having benefited from the gains from the fraud

 

[jessie]

Oh I wish I understood all this.

So "A brand new indictment" is on the cards, but they were already accused of Benefit Fraud along with murder weren't they? Does this mean it is separate to these charges?

I'm trying hard to sit on my hands and not speculate, but lots of theories going through my mind here.

Anyone heard of this happening before and in what circumstances it occurred ?

 

[Ironside]

A really horrible thought but maybe the new charge involves rape or sexual assault? The seriousness of those crimes could justify a new indictment and starting again.

Perhaps someone has come forward after seeing the case on the news.

 

[jessie]

Only pondering of course and probably reading too much in the judge's statement, but my guess is ONE of the dreadful pair has turned. Seen the way the trial is going and decided to try and save themselves.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm wondering if they're changing it to a manslaughter charge as they can't prove murder. It's entirely possible Margaret just wasted away through neglect and malnutrition.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Only pondering of course and probably reading too much in the judge's statement, but my guess is ONE of the dreadful pair has turned. Seen the way the trial is going and decided to try and save themselves.

I hope you're right and I hope it's Avril saying what REALLY happened.

 

[Satchie]

Oh I wish I understood all ...Anyone heard of this happening before and in what circumstances it occurred ?

A recent trial I was following in the US was declared a mistrial because a key witness made statements during his testimony which were not allowed in court. Likely it was hearsay, or references to past crimes by the accused, or something else that defence argued would prejudice the jury.

I've heard of it for other reasons such as serious illness of one of the key players, some major failure of process such as evidence that was never sent to the defense, or jury misconduct.

It occurs to me, I believe Scotland has a law strictly limiting the time between an indictment and a trial to 12 months. So perhaps a new indictment is only needed to reset the clock.
Modernising Justice in Scotland: The Reform of the High Court of Justice

In Canada the time limit is 30 months. ETA, which means trials usually start 29 months after charges were laid!

 

[Antonia]

Yes, what the ....?! I am very curious about what has happened.

They (EC & AJ) both have a bail hearing listed for Friday.
Court Roll

I wonder when we will find out the new indictment, perhaps after the preliminary hearing?