GUILTY UK - Maria Rawlings, 45, murdered, Romford, Essex, 3 May 2021 *arrest*

[SocksKitty]

CCTV of man police would like to identify

Found a link to it posted by the Met police too. Interestingly when he gets on the bus he appears to converse with the driver whilst acting like he’s getting his oyster from his pocket but the video cuts to another shot before showing whether or not he actually used an oyster or contactless card or whether he was asking the driver to let him on without. Of course if he did use an oyster or contactless it would be a lot easier to trace him so I’m led to believe he went down the “I’ve forgot my card” route to the driver

Bus machines can pretty much trace any purchased tickets if they are not cash payments as they have a system for refunds etc. If his Oyster card was registered or he used tap on tap off with a debit\ credit card payment. Unless the card was stolen it should be easy to trace. Are these buses cashless nowdays.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I just thought I'd look up the route for the 364 bus that the cctv footage has come from:
364 bus route

If the assumption is that the POI is suspected of being the perp, then he'd have to have walked south a fair way from Little Heath and back past the hospital to pick up this route after the attack. Maria walked north out of the hospital, towards the A12, so originally (assuming he was already heading for the 364 route) they would have been walking towards each other, not in the same direction, and he would have had to turn around and either accompany her or follow her north to Little Heath after spotting her.

It seems to me that she may already have been looking vulnerable in some respect as she left the hospital, e.g. unsteady on her feet or not fully alert, which may have marked her out as a potential victim.

I've had the experience of being cut loose from A&E late at night and having to make my way home at a time when public transport is sparse and the streets empty. It's something that needs looking at imo as it makes even the fit and well very vulnerable, never mind anyone who went there injured or weak.

This is starting to look like a really dreadful case imo.

JMO

 

[asmi106082]

There's something that's been bothering me about this case from the beginning.

She was at A&E on Monday night and left about 10.45pm. Her body was found at 2pm on Tuesday, in the bushes on the green north of the hospital.

But it wasn't until after the post mortem on Wednesday that LE designated this as a murder, because it was found that she had suffered strangulation as well as possible blunt force trauma. The press was briefed on Friday.

What is it that they thought they were looking at when they found her body on Tuesday that made them not designate it a murder right then and there? Because from what we've heard so far, it seems like murder would be your first thought if you found a body dumped in bushes, right?

The only thing I can think of is that they suspected drug overdose, which would chime with the unsteadiness and the fact that she'd attended a hospital some distance from home, but I don/t think you would assume a drug death unless there was some e.g. paraphernalia at the scene.

What do people think?

JMO

They could’ve thought she committed suicide. MOO

 

[Marg from Oz]

Or died of natural causes.

 

[Amonet]

I bet the police didn't even ask for this footage yet. Remember in the Everard case they had to try three times to get all the local doorbell footage.

I feel like they're possibly not giving Maria Rawlings as much value as they would a nice young Durham graduate.

I think that Sarah Everard was missing for a few days, and that led to a lot of the coverage. Maria, being found deceased, wouldn't get the same coverage as a missing person. In Maria's case, they knew there was a limited area to look over - from the hospital exit to the location where the body was found. You don't need the same kind of coverage in this case. They didn't even know where Sarah had gone missing from, or at least it was quite a large suspected area, so it would have been harder to cover the entire area to ask for cctv from houses and businesses than in Maria's case where there's a limited radius for the crime to have taken place.

I do not believe the difference has anything to do with hair colour or age or anything like that. I think it's just an expected outcome from the very differing nature of the incidents. The only real similarity between these two cases is that both were female, and both turn out to have been murdered.

 

[proclee]

Bus machines can pretty much trace any purchased tickets if they are not cash payments as they have a system for refunds etc. If his Oyster card was registered or he used tap on tap off with a debit\ credit card payment. Unless the card was stolen it should be easy to trace. Are these buses cashless nowdays.

All London bus routes are cashless now, Oyster cards and contactless debit/credit cards are most commonly used. The odd person does use a travel card which could of been purchased from a train station ticket machine using cash which he would of just had to flash to the driver to show the date was valid but it seems highly unlikely it would of been the method he used.
I use London busses on a daily basis and atleast once a week I will witness someone getting on and speaking to the driver saying their card wasn’t working, or it was lost or stolen etc and most drivers especially at night tend to let them on without one, if they haven’t been able to trace him via payment then that’s what I would think has happened

 

[Amonet]

I think we all need to bear in mind that the publicity a case gets is not automatically proportional to the niceness of the victim or the heinousness of the crime. It's usually more about how much police release to the media to keep it in the headlines. And that usually depends on how much help the police need from the public. Very often there's way less than there's been for either Maria or Julia, for the simple reason that the person is found deceased and the killer easily identified and charged, and at that point everything goes quiet while we wait for trial.

 

[SpursGyal]

I think we all need to bear in mind that the publicity a case gets is not automatically proportional to the niceness of the victim or the heinousness of the crime. It's usually more about how much police release to the media to keep it in the headlines. And that usually depends on how much help the police need from the public. Very often there's way less than there's been for either Maria or Julia, for the simple reason that the person is found deceased and the killer easily identified and charged, and at that point everything goes quiet while we wait for trial.

It’s not often we get much publicity over many cases. I still believe if it wasn’t for Sarah Everards friends tirelessly spreading the word we wouldn’t have heard much until the arrest of Wayne Couzens.

 

[Legally Bland]

I've been skimming this and didn't realise there was video from the bus so (hopefully) embedding it.

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[SpursGyal]

I was expecting to wake up to an arrest if i'm honest. That footage couldn't be clearer for someone to recognise him.

Still shocked me how young he looks, and i really don't know why.

 

[Skigh]

I was expecting to wake up to an arrest if i'm honest. That footage couldn't be clearer for someone to recognise him.

Still shocked me how young he looks, and i really don't know why.

I also thought we might have heard of an arrest. The police must have known where he got off the bus and traced some of his route after that.

 

[Dotta]

He looks to be in late teens. When I wrote he was tense and agitated I meant his body language - he had his arms crossed tightly, he almost looked as if he was hugging himself.

 

[Skigh]

He looks to be in late teens. When I wrote he was tense and agitated I meant his body language - he had his arms crossed tightly, he almost looked as if he was hugging himself.

I thought he might be hiding his hands.

 

[proclee]

So I just noticed the times on the CCTV and decided to check the bus timetable for that route seeing as at that time of night there would of been no traffic so should of been running on time.
He would of caught the last 364 of the night and looks as if he could of got on at Eccleston Crescent (unfortunately it’s a hail & ride before that so the bus would stop wherever someone indicates they want them too). There’s a few stops he could of got off at before another set of hail & ride stops but these are the ones which the bus is due to stop at around the time he appears to be waiting at the doors where you exit

 

[JuicyLucy]

I think that Sarah Everard was missing for a few days, and that led to a lot of the coverage. Maria, being found deceased, wouldn't get the same coverage as a missing person. In Maria's case, they knew there was a limited area to look over - from the hospital exit to the location where the body was found. You don't need the same kind of coverage in this case. They didn't even know where Sarah had gone missing from, or at least it was quite a large suspected area, so it would have been harder to cover the entire area to ask for cctv from houses and businesses than in Maria's case where there's a limited radius for the crime to have taken place.

I do not believe the difference has anything to do with hair colour or age or anything like that. I think it's just an expected outcome from the very differing nature of the incidents. The only real similarity between these two cases is that both were female, and both turn out to have been murdered.

Nevertheless, the fact that the DM had the footage means that the householder offered it to them ahead of the police. If it had been the other way round, the police would have prevented it ending up in the MSM like that. By extension, that means that the police still hadn't, at that time, got round to approaching householders for door cam footage despite - as you say - the limited area of relevance. I do find that quite poor, although I think the progress that's been made since is impressive.

As for why it wasn't treated as a murder more promptly, I still find that odd. Suicide or natural causes both seem like a leap considering she had a head injury, and people who die of natural causes don't usually manoeuvre themselves into shrubs while doing so. I would be very interested to know the rationale for waiting until after the PM to open an investigation, but meanwhile I'd be satisfied with arrest. With that footage, you've got to hope it won't be long.

JMO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

He looks to be in late teens. When I wrote he was tense and agitated I meant his body language - he had his arms crossed tightly, he almost looked as if he was hugging himself.

The hugging can sometimes be a symptom of opiate withdrawal I think.

 

[JuicyLucy]

If he was clucking he'd be way more agitated than that imo. But nursing his mashed knuckles is a definite possibility, either because they hurt or to hide them from CCTV - the former, I'd guess, as he's not trying to conceal his face at all for the most part. The hood only goes up at the end and even then he's very visible.

 

[Skigh]

Nevertheless, the fact that the DM had the footage means that the householder offered it to them ahead of the police. If it had been the other way round, the police would have prevented it ending up in the MSM like that. By extension, that means that the police still hadn't, at that time, got round to approaching householders for door cam footage despite - as you say - the limited area of relevance. I do find that quite poor, although I think the progress that's been made since is impressive.

As for why it wasn't treated as a murder more promptly, I still find that odd. Suicide or natural causes both seem like a leap considering she had a head injury, and people who die of natural causes don't usually manoeuvre themselves into shrubs while doing so. I would be very interested to know the rationale for waiting until after the PM to open an investigation, but meanwhile I'd be satisfied with arrest. With that footage, you've got to hope it won't be long.

JMO

I do not find it difficult to believe someone who was injured through a fall or drunk crawling into the shrubbery. I can fully understand there could be very legitimate reasons why it was not immediately treated as murder. Julia's death was not called murder until the day after she was discovered.

 

[Dotta]

He also seemed well prepared for his night prowl - no backpack to hamper movement, all things hidden in bulging pockets, dark almost paramilitary clothes. Except white soled shoes haha I must admit Im allergic to them - once I even painted white soles grey of my fav boots

 

[JuicyLucy]

I do not find it difficult to believe someone who was injured through a fall or drunk crawling into the shrubbery. I can fully understand there could be very legitimate reasons why it was not immediately treated as murder. Julia's death was not called murder until the day after she was discovered.

I'm quite sure Julia James' death was regarded as suspicious the minute she was found. They're not directly comparable though, are they. It's not a competition.

I'm just surprised Maria's wasn't. As far as anyone has said, she wasn't a known street drunk, for instance, and she wasn't elderly and frail. I guess I'm curious to know if there was something about the crime scene we haven't heard about that misdirected LE. If so, that might tell us something about the perp.

It feels like my curiosity is getting people's backs up but I'm not sure why - curiosity is what brings us all to this site surely?

ETA: JMO