Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #6

[Sherlockhames]

I hope no one take this in a disrespectful way as it really isn’t meant in this way at all - but being a woman of the same age as NB (mother of 2) has there been any suggestion that she was perhaps just prosaically responding to a “call of nature”? I say this from my own experience as someone with a bladder not as strong as it once was…

She goes about her normal morning, perhaps has a coffee or so. Is listening to the teams call on speaker (something I do may times on my own, and as a woman walking alone, particularly with a dog to want to communicate with etc she is listening on speaker but on mute. She sits down on the bench to listen a bit more but realises she has a quite “urgent” need for a wee. She looks around and realises she is in the middle of nowhere. She also doesn’t really want to do it with her phone so close (in case of a mortifying technical fail that god forbid means the people on the call somehow see/hear her - that my would be my paranoia!). So she leaves the phone safely on the bench and dips down the steep bank so that she can get some privacy by the deeper undergrowth for what she thinks can be a v quick but discrete stop, but then somehow misjudged her footing by the bank. Then she topples into the water and cold water shock takes over.

Like I said, I hope no one considers this disrespectful in any way. It’s just how I could imagine I might behave in a similar situation. It’s not Willow who’s been in trouble, she hasn’t had any bizarre reason to be by the rivers edge - she was just looking for a bit of privacy and a horrible accident has occurred (perhaps she’s toppled as she shoos Willow away or something?). It would explain her being down by the river, and happening in a split second confuses Willow who doesn’t then know where she’s gone. It also explains why her stuff is still on the bench as she’s fully intended to go back to it within seconds and it probably wasn’t out of her sight. It also explains why there are no signs of slippage etc down the bank as she carefully negotiated her way to a safe but discrete position.

Like I said it’s just a theory based on the knowledge of an early-middle-aged-woman’s bladder and the sort of thing I would do in the same situation.

 

[WestLondoner]

There's a lot of anthropomorphising of the dog going on in the thread. Dogs don't use deductive reasoning nor for the most part do they rely on their eyesight. They pay attention to what they can smell and then what they can hear. If you put a dog in front of a mirror, or show it a cat on TV, it will typically ignore what it sees, because there's no smell of another animal. You can't IMO draw any inferences at all from the actions of the dog.

 

[wackyw]

There's a lot of anthropomorphising of the dog going on in the thread. Dogs don't use deductive reasoning nor for the most part do they rely on their eyesight. They pay attention to what they can smell and then what they can hear. If you put a dog in front of a mirror, or show it a cat on TV, it will typically ignore what it sees, because there's no smell of another animal. You can't IMO draw any inferences at all from the actions of the dog.

If there is an inquiry and/or trial, I think there will be a fierce debate on here about whether Willow should be called to give evidence ...

 

[Woodburnbay]

If the dog has seen NB going into the water, presuming NB has, wouldn't the dog be running between the river and the bench rather than the bench and the gate?

Surely when the witness arrived the dog would run down to the riverbank barking loudly to draw attention to the fact she had fallen in.

Edited by me. Apologies I just seem to have repeated what you have said without adding anything new.

I was wondering if the police have ever taken the dog back to the area that Nicola used to walk it. I was thinking that of they then let the dog off the lead, where would the dog go to.
Would it go to the banks of the river by the bench or would it go somewhere else.

Dogs are very clever, im sure the dog would go to the last point where they were separated.

Seems like common sense but you never know if they have thought of doing this??

 

[ginnyw]

I hope no one take this in a disrespectful way as it really isn’t meant in this way at all - but being a woman of the same age as NB (mother of 2) has there been any suggestion that she was perhaps just prosaically responding to a “call of nature”? I say this from my own experience as someone with a bladder not as strong as it once was…

She goes about her normal morning, perhaps has a coffee or so. Is listening to the teams call on speaker (something I do may times on my own, and as a woman walking alone, particularly with a dog to want to community as with etc she is listening on speaker but on mute. She sits down on the bench to listen a bit more but realises she has a quite “urgent” need for a wee. She looks around and realises she is in the middle of nowhere. She also doesn’t really want to do it with her phone so close (in case of a mortifying technical fail that god forbid means the people on the call somehow see/hear her - that my would be my paranoia!). So she leaves the phone safely on the bench and dips down the steep bank so that she can get some privacy by the deeper undergrowth for what she thinks can be a v quick but discrete stop, but then somehow misjudged her footing by the bank. Then she topples into the water and cold water shock takes over.

Like I said, I hope no one considers this disrespectful in any way. It’s just how I could imagine I might behave in a similar situation. It’s not Willow who’s been in trouble, she hasn’t had any bizarre reason to be by the rivers edge - she was just looking for a bit of privacy and a horrible accident has occurred (perhaps she’s toppled as she shoos Willow away or something?). It would explain her being down by the river, and happening in a split second confuses Willow who doesn’t then know where she’s gone. It also explains why her stuff is still on the bench as she’s fully intended to go back to it within seconds and it probably wasn’t out of her sight. It also explains why there are no signs of slippage etc down the bank as she carefully negotiated her way to a safe but discrete position.

Like I said it’s just a theory based on the knowledge of an early-middle-aged-woman’s bladder and the sort of thing I would do in the same situation.

I guess at this stage anything could have happened. Mind you, she wouldn't have been all that far from the school where she'd left her car and presumably there would be loos there.

 

[Normanly]

All theories are possible. There were however no clear signs of a slip on that part of the river bank.

No there isn't which I have also stated in my post. No evidence of anything. I just think the phone and harness positions when found can be explained by NB stopping to put the harness back on Willow as she was about to go through the gate.

 

[lalalemon]

If there is an inquiry and/or trial, I think there will be a fierce debate on here about whether Willow should be called to give evidence ...

My husband actually asked (jokingly) if the police had interviewed Willow yet!

 

[lalalemon]

I guess at this stage anything could have happened. Mind you, she wouldn't have been all that far from the school where she'd left her car and presumably there would be loos there.

You can't just go into a school and use their toilets though.

 

[martinwatts5]

I think we discussed this very early on in thread 1 - the fact that the policewoman contradicted herself about where the dog was found. I knew there was a longer video of the first press conference. At the start she says the dog was found near the bench and at the end she says the dog was found some distance away (7.10 on video)

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The dog was found after the alarm was raised?

 

[Woodburnbay]

I hope no one take this in a disrespectful way as it really isn’t meant in this way at all - but being a woman of the same age as NB (mother of 2) has there been any suggestion that she was perhaps just prosaically responding to a “call of nature”? I say this from my own experience as someone with a bladder not as strong as it once was…

She goes about her normal morning, perhaps has a coffee or so. Is listening to the teams call on speaker (something I do may times on my own, and as a woman walking alone, particularly with a dog to want to community as with etc she is listening on speaker but on mute. She sits down on the bench to listen a bit more but realises she has a quite “urgent” need for a wee. She looks around and realises she is in the middle of nowhere. She also doesn’t really want to do it with her phone so close (in case of a mortifying technical fail that god forbid means the people on the call somehow see/hear her - that my would be my paranoia!). So she leaves the phone safely on the bench and dips down the steep bank so that she can get some privacy by the deeper undergrowth for what she thinks can be a v quick but discrete stop, but then somehow misjudged her footing by the bank. Then she topples into the water and cold water shock takes over.

Like I said, I hope no one considers this disrespectful in any way. It’s just how I could imagine I might behave in a similar situation. It’s not Willow who’s been in trouble, she hasn’t had any bizarre reason to be by the rivers edge - she was just looking for a bit of privacy and a horrible accident has occurred (perhaps she’s toppled as she shoos Willow away or something?). It would explain her being down by the river, and happening in a split second confuses Willow who doesn’t then know where she’s gone. It also explains why her stuff is still on the bench as she’s fully intended to go back to it within seconds and it probably wasn’t out of her sight. It also explains why there are no signs of slippage etc down the bank as she carefully negotiated her way to a safe but discrete position.

Like I said it’s just a theory based on the knowledge of an early-middle-aged-woman’s bladder and the sort of thing I would do in the same situation.

The dog would still be able to find that scent if it existed or happened in that way.

 

[Firstsnow4]

The dog was found after the alarm was raised?

Yes another discrepancy! I know this presser was very early on in the investigation but the facts are forever changing! IMO.

 

[Sjöberg]

I hope no one take this in a disrespectful way as it really isn’t meant in this way at all - but being a woman of the same age as NB (mother of 2) has there been any suggestion that she was perhaps just prosaically responding to a “call of nature”? I say this from my own experience as someone with a bladder not as strong as it once was…

<modsnip>

It was cold and her outfit made taking a wee complicated, it was also a bit too public - especially, I would think, the riverside, as that is open to the other side of the river! But this is not to say that this can be ruled out.

 

[JeremyBentham]

If this new search doesn't find anything that's going to put a lot of pressure on the police force, and more turmoil for the family. She might still be in the river though even if the search doesn't find anything. Is a big next few days, given the confidence they have put into this equipment.

 

[I wonder]

I've never had a dog, but know how loyal and smart they can be. It is reasonable to expect that if the dog had seen her fall in, it would be by the actual riverside barking away, as is the last place it saw her? So maybe the dog didn't see the event, and was away in the field running around, so went back to the last place it saw her, which was the bench.

If the later, it's possible the dog wasn't the cause of her going down to the bank.

So are you saying if she fell into the river, it was a different location to the bench? Somewhere alongside the fields which means she left her phone on the bench and the harness on the floor? Also she left her dog behind? Really?

I’ve always felt, if she fell in, it was near the bench. I can’t imagine her leaving her phone on the bench, particularly as she’d been using it. She fell there and the dog waited for her to re-emerge from the same place.

 

[pineapple23]

I hope no one take this in a disrespectful way as it really isn’t meant in this way at all - but being a woman of the same age as NB (mother of 2) has there been any suggestion that she was perhaps just prosaically responding to a “call of nature”?

If I was answering a call of nature in that environment, I wouldn't go to the hassle of scrambling down some banking to or near the waters edge. I would also feel more open to view. I would head for the nearest cover. From memory there seems to be plenty of foliage around.

 

[IKnowNowt]

<modsnip>

It was cold and her outfit made taking a wee complicated, it was also a bit too public. But this is not to say that this can be ruled out.

<modsnip - quoted post snipped, response also> I never leave the house to walk my dog without going to the toilet first because I wouldn't want to get caught short.

 

[Casseus]

I was wondering if the police have ever taken the dog back to the area that Nicola used to walk it. I was thinking that of they then let the dog off the lead, where would the dog go to.
Would it go to the banks of the river by the bench or would it go somewhere else.

Dogs are very clever, im sure the dog would go to the last point where they were separated.

Seems like common sense but you never know if they have thought of doing this??

10 – The dog has since been back.

https://www.lep.co.uk/news/crime/nicola-bulleys-friend-shares-11-facts-to-set-the-record-straight-about-missing-mums-disappearance-4014566

 

[JeremyBentham]

So are you saying if she fell into the river, it was a different location to the bench? Somewhere alongside the fields which means she left her phone on the bench and the harness on the floor? Also she left her dog behind? Really?

I’ve always felt, if she fell in, it was near the bench. I can’t imagine her leaving her phone on the bench, particularly as she’d been using it. She fell there and the dog waited for her to re-emerge from the same place.

Not really. I was thinking of a cause as to why she might have fell, and many have suggested the dog may have played a part, being near the river edge itself, caught up, whatever. But my thoughts were if that were the case the dog would have been right there and maybe stayed around the bank where she fell in, not up and around by the bench/gate. As others have said now we shouldn't put too much onus on how a dog could have reacted in that situation, but it was a thought that the dog was away somewhere else and not involved in the cause of her falling, so leaves few other obvious reasons as to why she might be near the bank's edge, given there were no signs of slipping from the top.

 

[ayrshireguy]

No there isn't which I have also stated in my post. No evidence of anything. I just think the phone and harness positions when found can be explained by NB stopping to put the harness back on Willow as she was about to go through the gate.

Indeed. Or she went through the gate leaving the dog behind for whatever reason?

 

[Nikynoo]

I hope no one take this in a disrespectful way as it really isn’t meant in this way at all - but being a woman of the same age as NB (mother of 2) has there been any suggestion that she was perhaps just prosaically responding to a “call of nature”? I say this from my own experience as someone with a bladder not as strong as it once was…

She goes about her normal morning, perhaps has a coffee or so. Is listening to the teams call on speaker (something I do may times on my own, and as a woman walking alone, particularly with a dog to want to community as with etc she is listening on speaker but on mute. She sits down on the bench to listen a bit more but realises she has a quite “urgent” need for a wee. She looks around and realises she is in the middle of nowhere. She also doesn’t really want to do it with her phone so close (in case of a mortifying technical fail that god forbid means the people on the call somehow see/hear her - that my would be my paranoia!). So she leaves the phone safely on the bench and dips down the steep bank so that she can get some privacy by the deeper undergrowth for what she thinks can be a v quick but discrete stop, but then somehow misjudged her footing by the bank. Then she topples into the water and cold water shock takes over.

Like I said, I hope no one considers this disrespectful in any way. It’s just how I could imagine I might behave in a similar situation. It’s not Willow who’s been in trouble, she hasn’t had any bizarre reason to be by the rivers edge - she was just looking for a bit of privacy and a horrible accident has occurred (perhaps she’s toppled as she shoos Willow away or something?). It would explain her being down by the river, and happening in a split second confuses Willow who doesn’t then know where she’s gone. It also explains why her stuff is still on the bench as she’s fully intended to go back to it within seconds and it probably wasn’t out of her sight. It also explains why there are no signs of slippage etc down the bank as she carefully negotiated her way to a safe but discrete position.

Like I said it’s just a theory based on the knowledge of an early-middle-aged-woman’s bladder and the sort of thing I would do in the same situation.

I agree - I am oftern 'caught out' on the morning dog walk. I do hope that a thorough search has been undertaken of any undergrowth.

Having recently tripped over a tree root on a dog walk - this is also another possiblity. I went flying and no marks what so ever on the ground to mark my trip and the only markings was my landing place. I guess with the passage of time and the number of people searching, no markings would be evident now.