Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #18

[StillDiggin]

This might explain any media black outs over the Nicola Bulley coverage.

The coroner has asked Lancashire Police not to discuss the case in either social media or the mainstream media ahead of the inquest.

https://www.lep.co.uk/news/crime/nicola-bulley-update-as-police-divers-return-to-river-wyre-in-lancashire-4099113

 

[Twistinginthewind]

One of the few certainties about this case is Willow was bone dry. I don't know about springer spaniels, but NY golden retriever went in the water about 10.00 yesterday morning and was still damp when I got home about 3.00.For me, whatever the explanation for this sad case is, is it has to explain how Willow stayed dry whilst its mum was drowning in water. None of us know the answer to this and I doubt we ever will

I agree, @WAWAW.

In my view, it's not even as simple as Willow being dry, there's this as well (BBM):

"Police said Willow was found "bone dry" and running between the gate to a nearby field and the bench where Nicola's phone was found. "

Experts on why Nicola Bulley's dog was found 'running back and forth'

I interpret this as Willow being focused on something that transpired and took Nicola away from tending Willow/staying by her "between the gate to a nearby field and the bench", not the water. jmo

 

[CSIAngus]

I agree, @WAWAW.

In my view, it's not even as simple as Willow being dry, there's this as well (BBM):

"Police said Willow was found "bone dry" and running between the gate to a nearby field and the bench where Nicola's phone was found. "

Experts on why Nicola Bulley's dog was found 'running back and forth'

I interpret this as Willow being focused on something that transpired and took Nicola away from tending Willow/staying by her "between the gate to a nearby field and the bench", not the water. jmo

I didn't think I'd post on this case again but one thing that is nagging in my mind has brought me back. Was the dog left running free from the point of NB's disappearance until the first person on scene or until the alarm was raised and NB was looked for? I recall some mention early on in the case of string being used by someone to tie it up. Can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks in advance.

 

[kittythehare]

Lancashire Police said in a statement: "We can confirm we are carrying out some work on the direction of HM coroner."

An inquest into Ms Bulley's death is to be held on 26 June.

Police return to river where Nicola Bulley was found

Police divers have returned to the river where mother-of-two Nicola Bulley vanished.

www.rte.ie

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I didn't think I'd post on this case again but one thing that is nagging in my mind has brought me back. Was the dog left running free from the point of NB's disappearance until the first person on scene or until the alarm was raised and NB was looked for? I recall some mention early on in the case of string being used by someone to tie it up. Can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks in advance.

AFAIK, there was a mention about the dog being tied up with "string" early on, and also Nicola's mobile phone being found on the "floor" initially so many feet downslope of the bench, and a passerby picking it up and setting it on the bench, but those articles in MSM are no longer available when doing a standard search for "key terms", IMO/MOO.

There is still this about Willow being "tied up":

""There was a mobile phone on the bench and there was also something between the bench and the river so I went and looked, and it was a dog harness.

"The dog looked worried so I tied her up and rushed home as I had to go to an appointment.

"I then went and spoke to my daughter-in-law and she immediately knew who the dog was, alerted the woman's partner and that was it - the police were on it."

Passerby raised alarm after finding missing mum's 'worried' dog wandering alone

 

[Kye Zeeb]

Re the police divers, they may just be searching for something of Nicola's that maybe wasn't previously recovered from the river, e.g. shoe(s), coat, purse etc. Personal items may have become dislodged and their position in the water could assist with the inquest. Or maybe the fitbit could have been missing? All JMO.

 

[sunshineray]

I've been wondering if it's the same in UK? The coroner states for the record a person is dead, where and the circumstances they were found and records a time of death. The pathologist then at autopsy and after all tests come back determines the cause of death. It's up to LE to investigate the manner in which it all occured and who or what is responsible. If the coroner is asking LE to do some work to help them in their task and the pathologist has not yet released their findings, what if anything can be deduced from all that? It makes me think there's a very real possiblity that NB did not drown. AJMO

 

[pineapple23]

If they decide it's implausible that NB could have fallen at that spot and floated over the weir, does that make the case stronger for either 1) suicide ie she delberately sought out a deeper place or 2) foul play?

 

[russeverton]

I never for 1 minute thought that she fell in a shallow river near the bench or that she threw herself in to commit suicide. The fact the divers are now back in the river and by the look of it acting out floating on there back a short way from where she was found tells me the autopsy is telling a different story to the one everyone seems to think which is she accidentally fell in near the bench. I am convinced in june when they reveal the findings this bizarre case will not be solved

 

[Allabouttrial]

"The dog looked worried so I tied her up and rushed home as I had to go to an appointment.

Snipped by me (my response not aimed at original poster!)

I'm not going to get entrenched in this case again, but seriously with this quote?!

Can someone please enlighten me on what a worried dog looks like ....

 

[pineapple23]

Snipped by me (my response not aimed at original poster!)

I'm not going to get entrenched in this case again, but seriously with this quote?!

Can someone please enlighten me on what a worried dog looks like ....

I would interpret that as agitated - restless, maybe pacing, panting, whining.

 

[Gemmie]

Snipped by me (my response not aimed at original poster!)

I'm not going to get entrenched in this case again, but seriously with this quote?!

Can someone please enlighten me on what a worried dog looks like ....

Dogs do have facial expressions that animal lovers can read. (I'm not implying that you're not an animal lover. ) I had a great example on the board outside my cubicle (long gone now). Wish I still had them because it was an EXCELLENT side-by-side comparison that was to show exactly what you asked. The difference between what a happy dog and a sad dog looked like because dogs do have expressions. Oh well, these will have to do.

Here's a good one with a worried or scared dog:

The above vs a happy dog (and no, not just because it looks like it has a smile on its face):

Sources:

Dog in the Cage. Dogs Behind Bars. Unhappy Dog. a Dog without Owner, Dog Shelter Stock Image - Image of homeless, face: 178972575

Photo about Dog in the cage. Dogs behind bars. Unhappy dog. a dog without owner, dog shelter. Sad dog. Image of homeless, face, bars - 178972575

www.dreamstime.com

7+ Thousand Worried Dog Royalty-Free Images, Stock Photos & Pictures | Shutterstock

Find Worried Dog stock images in HD and millions of royalty-free photos, illustrations, and vectors on Shutterstock. 6,753 Worried Dog photos for download.

www.shutterstock.com

Dog Facial Expressions: Stress - eileenanddogs

What stress in dogs can look like.

eileenanddogs.com

Do Dogs Smile? Decoding Your Dog’s Happy Face

Our pups know when we're sad or happy, and we'd like to know them just as well. But do dogs smile? And how do we know when they're happy?

www.rd.com

 

[NeverPersonal]

If they decide it's implausible that NB could have fallen at that spot and floated over the weir, does that make the case stronger for either 1) suicide ie she delberately sought out a deeper place or 2) foul play?

I never for 1 minute thought that she fell in a shallow river near the bench or that she threw herself in to commit suicide. The fact the divers are now back in the river and by the look of it acting out floating on there back a short way from where she was found tells me the autopsy is telling a different story to the one everyone seems to think which is she accidentally fell in near the bench. I am convinced in june when they reveal the findings this bizarre case will not be solved

this case is so gosh dang weird i don't even have an opinion besides definitely not suicide. i know suicidal people do irrational things at times but there would be zero reason to make her dog witness such a thing. that'd be extremely strange to me.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

which had some steps down that weren't great but they look passable.

You make it sound like stairs that go into the water that you can walk up and out on. Looks like a slippery muddy climb, the first steps cannot even be reached by your feet. There is no way a person in water-soaked clothing could have pulled themselves up that bank without help. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I've been wondering if it's the same in UK? The coroner states for the record a person is dead, where and the circumstances they were found and records a time of death. The pathologist then at autopsy and after all tests come back determines the cause of death. It's up to LE to investigate the manner in which it all occured and who or what is responsible. If the coroner is asking LE to do some work to help them in their task and the pathologist has not yet released their findings, what if anything can be deduced from all that? It makes me think there's a very real possiblity that NB did not drown. AJMO

^^bbm

Given NB was believed in the water for nearly 4 weeks, I was not the least bit surprised to read the HM coroner requested additional follow-up from LE prior to 26 June inquest.

In my experience, the coroner in the UK is considerably more cautious about making a definite determination in comparison to the US where the coroner and/or medical examiner will freely make determinations on the cause of death using medical probabilities.

I'm thinking of Libby Squire's case where the victim was believed strangled and her body dumped in Humber estuary but the pathologist told jurors her cause of death could not be determined.

The Home Office pathologist Dr Matthew Lyall told jurors that the cause of Squire’s death could not be determined, nor whether she was dead or alive before entering the water, due to the amount of time her body had been in the river. But two lacerations inside her top lip showed blunt trauma consistent with “squeezing or compression of the neck or covering of the mouth”.

In the US, the family can request a second opinion, or during a trial, each side can hire experts to support or disagree with the coroner's initial finding. And there's much to be said about buying an opinion.

Man, 26, guilty of rape and murder of Hull student Libby Squire

Pawel Relowicz convicted of killing ‘vulnerable’ student after 13-day trial at Sheffield crown court

www.theguardian.com

 

[WAWAW]

You make it sound like stairs that go into the water that you can walk up and out on. Looks like a slippery muddy climb, the first steps cannot even be reached by your feet. There is no way a person in water-soaked clothing could have pulled themselves up that bank without help. MOO
View attachment 414297

To be fair the context of my comment was whether Willow could get to her mum and not whether someone could get out. From looking at that photo it's quite clear a dog could use these to get to the water and I'd suggest the steps were originally put there to assist people in getting in and out of the water, otherwise what's the purpose of them

 

[Cuko]

I would interpret that as agitated - restless, maybe pacing, panting, whining.

I agree. Plus turning the head a lot, looking anxiously around the location.
(EBM for typo)

 

[pineapple23]

Former forensic pathologist thinks divers must be looking for something specific. He thinks it's unlikely that they are attempting a reconstruction as the conditions can't be repeated. Nicola Bulley police are searching river for missing object, says ex-pathologist

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Former forensic pathologist thinks divers must be looking for something specific. He thinks it's unlikely that they are attempting a reconstruction as the conditions can't be repeated. Nicola Bulley police are searching river for missing object, says ex-pathologist

I wondered if that would be Richard Shepherd. I read his book Unnatural Causes - highly recommended for those of you interested in pathology.

 

[Firstsnow4]

I wondered if that would be Richard Shepherd. I read his book Unnatural Causes - highly recommended for those of you interested in pathology.

I’m reading it at the moment! I can’t put it down!