UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #11

[mummyshark]

In my view it would be quite easy as typically they're very small printouts - 2" x3" roughly.

Surely the blood gas report is the only record taken from that time and should be in the babies notes? When my daughter was in NICU they used to staple them on to her paper notes.

 

[Dotta]

Definitely not a hoarder I do the same tbh. I still have notes from when I first started learning music, six years now. I think it helps me keep track of progress and helps with specific memories.

definitely like to know what else was in the bag. I’m wondering what else of the med notes has been presented in the cases already. Like the handover sheet. Just a quick memory recall we have med notes for child m, a handover sheet maybe two? Can’t remember anything else.

would like to know each potential “souvenir“. Im not really attaching any significance to the diary. Think it has three relevant notes. Would be interesting if the majority of the souvenirs corresponded with deaths.

im not quite sure how to read it being under the bed. To me it suggests “out of sight, out of mind” but could be wrong. Could be “keep it for later” as well but It certainly doesn’t sound like the Morrison’s bag was organised in any way.

could it also read that she didn’t associate the notes with a threat? They are certainly not hidden in any way or seem to be a memorial. Does that mean she wasn’t trying to cover her tracks or was it that she deemed the value of the “souvenirs“ to be worth the risk?

You answered the question:
"helps me keep specific memories".

It was a big house, surely with some cupboards where shopping bags can be stored, no?

Who keeps unwanted documents under one's bed?
In a bedroom which, by the way, should be kept immaculate to provide rest and comfort.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

All these bags stuffed with paper were fire hazard!
And under the bed?
Oh well...
Weirder and weirder

JMO

I know people who live on narrow boats on the grand union canal. One is a hoarder but only of newspapers. He literally has stacks of newspapers all around his boat and yes it is very much like a tunnel system. Not much room to move at all. Funniest thing is at one point in time as it’s a boat the combined weight of the papers actually affected the buoyancy of it. We were worried it was going to sink the boat so we “disposed of some as they were rotten”. If that thing went up in flames it would be burning for weeks.

 

[Sweeper2000]

You answered the question:
"helps me keep specific memories".

It was a big house, surely with some cupboards where shopping bags can be stored, no?

Who keeps unwanted documents under one's bed?
In a bedroom, which by the way, should be kept immaculate to provide rest and comfort.

JMO

Slightly different though. These memories are ones I would otherwise forget. They help me remember things going on at the time for instance certain lyrics point to actual events and then I remember surrounding information. If it was something significant I probably wouldn’t need much of a memory jog tbh.

I think anything seen as important ie work documents, official letters, old passports etc would be seen differently as well. You would probably keep them on the off chance you might need them but not necessarily make a organiser for them. Maybe.

hell if allot of people find food in cupboards that’s out of date by years that’s saying something I suppose

 

[Dotta]

Slightly different though. These memories are ones I would otherwise forget. They help me remember things going on at the time for instance certain lyrics point to actual events and then I remember surrounding information. If it was something significant I probably wouldn’t need much of a memory jog tbh.

I think anything seen as important ie work documents, official letters, old passports etc would be seen differently as well. You would probably keep them on the off chance you might need them but not necessarily make a organiser for them. Maybe.

hell if allot of people find food in cupboards that’s out of date by years that’s saying something I suppose

What I meant was e.g. "understairs storage" not kitchen cupboards.

 

[Becci]

Scotish power bill 2009, t.mobile bill 2013 & i can go bk further both from old address hahaha shame on mee lol
Shoved in a cupboard not in my bedroom though

 

[bbsaz]

Have we covered the babies with the handover notes yet? If so, she moved those documents with her

 

[Sweeper2000]

Have we covered the babies with the handover notes yet? If so, she moved those documents with her

Jury told that when Lucy Letby was first arrested and her home searched, officers recovered the handover sheet from the morning of 25.06.16 which included baby Q's name, and "this is a document which should not have left the hospital nor was there any need for her to retain it".

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Court hears that when Lucy Letby's home was searched after arrest, a handover sheet for baby B was found - along with paperwork for other children, including those she's accused of offences against, and those she isn't.

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that’s what I got so far. Baby q is soon to be heard. I’m kind of guessing that the med notes for child m were not found with the handover sheets as we likely would have heard it by now. I think we can assume it wasn’t in the Morrison’s bag at least.

 

[bbsaz]

Ah thanks for going back and finding those quotes, much appreciated Sweeper. So Baby Bs handover note moved with her... that is very weird imo. But, as always, no context!

If it was found say... with some academic textbooks or reflective work for revalidation, then maybe its innocent... If found in her diary, that would be dodge. Lets see if the Daily Mail podcast gives us more, it often does

 

[bbsaz]

June 2015 Baby B 'attempted murder' charge

April 2016 Lucy moves into her new home and takes Baby B note with her (10mths later)

June 2018 Baby B handover note found (3yrs later)

 

[marynnu]

Surely the blood gas report is the only record taken from that time and should be in the babies notes? When my daughter was in NICU they used to staple them on to her paper notes.

We did that where I worked, though it wasn't strictly necessary as there was also a record sheet for blood gases. CoC may have had an electronic system though. Either way, it shouldn't have been under someone's bed!

 

[Marantz4250b]

Interesting development for sure. The paper towel written on must have been used to copy into The proper file later on right? Haven’t been following today so not sure on things. Was it LL writing the notes on the towel? and so presumably was her writing up the notes later on? Just read it was probably three nurses involved Including LL. I think it would depend on who copied the notes up later but can’t think it would have been anyone else than LL. otherwise she presumably would not have been able to pick it up.

anyone think the prosecution not mentioning the contents of the bag suggests it was found in loads of notes? Would be very useful to their case for it to be found by itself. I can envision someone just packing loads of notes into a plastic bag, lots of people do but no way in a million years can I see those notes being taken by themselves in a bag. That’s too much for me.

Once again, abd like so much in this case, we get no context of the circumstances of the finding of athis note; "in a shopping bag" is too simplistic - was it a bag of other notes, other general documents, was it shoved in amongst clothes, was it in a pocket of an item of clothing in the bag?

Without knowing the whole circumstances of its discovery then its impossible to express any opinion as to its relevance.

 

[katydid23]

Thanks for that. The reason I asked is that if it were a physical paper file, then the paper towel note (as source) could have been filed along with it and then LL might have come across it at a later time, noticed it, removed it as rubbish, put it in her pocket and then forgot about it, hence it ending up at her home.

But why would she place it in a bag and under a bed in her home? Why not discard it upon finding it in her pocket at home?

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think it depends on whether this bag was stuffed with tons of random bits of paper, including many hospital records which have been inadvertently stuffed in a uniform pocket. Or whether these two documents were standalone, and being preserved inside a bag. Were the other docs relating to babies in the trial all in the same Morrisons bag? Or was she the kind of person who never binned anything and there were piles of random stuff all over the place. JMO

You beat me to it. Context is everything and there is literally no context to this piece of evidence. I'd guess that the jury were shown a photograph of it in-situ which will help a lot. Its very easy to imply guilt into the minds of people reading about it when reported like this, though.

 

[katydid23]

Indeed but we don’t know when they were actually put under the bed. Presumably she wouldn’t have thrown them out in the normal rubbish as they were confidential. So did they end up stuffed in a drawer for some time until they were finally ‘tidied up’ by being shoved in a bag and out of sight at a later date.

But a paper towel or a tiny blood gas note could be easily torn up, or thrown into a fireplace or discarded quite easily with no problem at all.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I am someone who hangs on to what other people what call rubbish basically lol, not a hoarder but my purse is always full of old receipts, I keep movie tickets and post it notes and I still have all my exercise books from school because I’m convinced one day I will definitely need them for something!! I do just find the fact she’d just moved house before this makes it weirder, in my opinion, if it was 4 days before I could accept that they’d just been caught up in the move. I’d like to know more about what else was in that bag, other random bits of scrap paper, other things from work, or other things from the cases.

The house was searched at the time of her first arrest which was 2018 - a couple of years after the events the note relates to. Its entirely plausible that that things would have been shifted around the house by then and certain things stuffed into bags.

A not unlikely scenario; she's got a bloke coming round...."crap, the place is a mess, I'd better shove some stuff out of sight to make it look presentable". Loads of stuff then ends up in bags shoved anywhere out of immediate sight.

Without the context of its finding then its pretty irrelevant as an isolated fact.

 

[katydid23]

The house was searched at the time of her first arrest which was 2018 - a couple of years after the events the note relates to. Its entirely plausible that that things would have been shifted around the house by then and certain things stuffed into bags.

A not unlikely scenario; she's got a bloke coming round...."crap, the place is a mess, I'd better shove some stuff out of sight to make it look presentable". Loads of stuff then ends up in bags shoved anywhere out of immediate sight.

Without the context of its finding then its pretty irrelevant as an isolated fact.

But a paper towel? The day she came home from work and discovered she had accidentally brought the paper towel home in her pocket, WHY KEEP IT? It is a paper towel with scribbled notes. Ball it up and toss it in the bin ---the end.

How does it end up in a bag under her bed years later"? It's not like it's actual paperwork or actual receipts , etc. It's a paper towel.

Why would it ever have been 'shifted around the house'?

 

[Marantz4250b]

Who keeps unwanted documents under one's bed?

My grandmother kept all manner of "important" documents under the bed. 50 year old bank statements, tax documents, out of circulation coins and notes, jewelry and other totally pointless things.

Point I'm making is that people seem to judge what is "normal" by what either they do or what they perceive society considers normal.

There is no such thing as "normal" in my experience.

 

[Dotta]

But a paper towel? The day she came home from work and discovered she had accidentally brought the paper towel home in her pocket, WHY KEEP IT? It is a paper towel with scribbled notes. Ball it up and toss it in the bin the end.

How does it end up in a bag under her bed years later"? It's not like it's actual paperwork or actual receipts , etc. It's a paper towel.

But very special paper towel.
The "witness" to Baby's M fight for his life.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

My grandmother kept all manner of "important" documents under the bed. 50 year old bank statements, tax documents, out of circulation coins and notes, jewelry and other totally pointless things.

Point I'm making is that people seem to judge what is "normal" by what either they do or what they perceive society considers normal.

There is no such thing as "normal" in my experience.

I did not use the word "normal".
Just saying.