UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #12

[DianaWW]

I don't think anyone disagrees that management should have done more and sooner. Personally, it's them that I feel are accountable more so than the group of consultants who actually reported it to them. The fact a lot of senior staff left their roles around the time of the first arrest speaks volumes. And IF LL is found guilty, there should be consequences for all concerned IMO.

 

[sceawian]

I went looking and the NHS does have a whistleblowing service that could potentially have been used: NHS England » Speaking up to NHS England

My bff is a registrar and she tried to utilise this service - completely rubbish, said it ended up being worse than doing nothing. Eventually had to find another way to report / get her concerns heard.

What was galling to me on the outside is that multiple colleagues agreed with her that it was an issue that needed to be raised, sent her private words of support and called her brave etc., but basically no one else was willing to stick their neck out alongside her.

 

[Kemug]

I find Dr J to be a very believable witness.

 

[LorriB]

I found this article on desatutation causes in ventilated neonates interesting in relation to if LL was reacting quickly enough.

https://www.infantjournal.co.uk/pdf/inf_062_nat.pdf

 

[Tortoise]

Well, that's a very good point. I wonder who held the baby for the Xray?

EDIT the point has been made that we do not know if 6.07 refers to the Xray time or the reporting.

Do they hold babies while they are being x-rayed? I'd assumed the x-ray would just be positioned over the cot.

"An x-ray records the ET tube is in the right place at 6.07am."

This is confirmation of the time the tube is in the right place, IMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes. I think there is a lot we won't find out in this case. Certainly in terms of what senior management knew and what they did. I suspect that will form part of a later inquiry regardless of LL being found guilty or not guilty

<modsnip>

There will be legal cases dragging on for years relating to this, I think.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I find Dr J to be a very believable witness.

I have questions as to why many years after the events involving child K he can remember them in extreme, to-the-minute detail yet didn't say these things in his initial police interviews. That from LL's barrister not me. Also, his assertions that he went into the room to check on LL to allay his own fears that he wasn't "being hysterical" about his concerns around her, do not seem to fit with the fact that he and other consultants had already made their minds up about her and had raised concerns. He must have been well past the "am I being irrational" state of mind by then, imo.

 

[marynnu]

Do they hold babies while they are being x-rayed? I'd assumed the x-ray would just be positioned over the cot.

"An x-ray records the ET tube is in the right place at 6.07am."

This is confirmation of the time the tube is in the right place, IMO.

If only! The nurse has to hold the baby in the correct position. This is on their back with their arms positioned as if above their head, but lying flat, if you see what I mean. It's quite a skill, if I say so myself!

 

[Tortoise]

If only! The nurse has to hold the baby in the correct position. This is on their back with their arms positioned as if above their head, but lying flat, if you see what I mean. It's quite a skill, if I say so myself!

Why don't they get a nurse to hold the arms up while they are lying flat in the cot?

 

[marynnu]

Why don't they get a nurse to hold the arms up while they are lying flat in the cot?

Pardon?

 

[WaxLyrical]

Why don't they get a nurse to hold the arms up while they are lying flat in the cot?

Google pigg-o-stat

 

[Becci]

Pardon?

Can i guess radiation haha

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Google pigg-o-stat

Clever device! There would be too much handling to get an intubated baby into one of those. Hold for xray means to stand there and hold the arms out of the way while the baby lays flat, and also attend to any other details of positioning. Not actually picking the baby up out of bed, lol!

 

[WaxLyrical]

Can i guess radiation haha

Wouldn’t the X-ray just pick up the metal of the cot?

 

[Tortoise]

A report from today (restricted to 10%) -

"On Wednesday, prosecutor Nick Johnson KC read to jurors a summary of Letby’s police interviews about the incident, in which she denied any wrongdoing. [...]

Following further questions from police, she suggested that maybe the tube had not been secured properly, he said. She denied that had been done deliberately. [...]

Mr Johnson explained to the jury he was not calling medical experts Dr Dewi Evans and Dr Sandie Bohin.

He said the prosecution and defence had agreed there was nothing they could add to the evidence already heard about Child K."

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/20...n-waiting-for-baby-to-self-correct-trial-told

 

[Tortoise]

Pardon?

there's something I'm missing clearly...

I thought it was being suggested that the baby was taken out of the cot and held by nurse.

now I'm still not clear on how it's done, if the machinery is not positioned over the baby lying in the cot.

 

[marynnu]

O

there's something I'm missing clearly...

OK, assuming you aren't pulling my leg!
Radiographer arrives with portable Xray machine.
Baby is left in the incubator. The nurse dons a lead apron. She/he puts hands through portholes and positions baby as described, trying not to extubate them in the process.
Radiographer does the Xray.
Voila!

 

[marynnu]

Wouldn’t the X-ray just pick up the metal of the cot?

what do you mean?

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Wouldn’t the X-ray just pick up the metal of the cot?

The incubators are specially designed to be used for x-rays and the "plate" is placed in a special drawer beneath the baby. One of the nurse's jobs is to make sure there is nothing on or over the baby that will interfere with the picture. The position of the baby's chin can also affect the position of the tube tip so the nurse also has to ensure that the baby's chin is in a neutral position. It really is an art; sometimes it feels like it would be better to have four hands.

 

[Tortoise]

O
OK, assuming you aren't pulling my leg!
Radiographer arrives with portable Xray machine.
Baby is left in the incubator. The nurse dons a lead apron. She/he puts hands through portholes and positions baby as described, trying not to extubate them in the process.
Radiographer does the Xray.
Voila!

Thank you. No I wasn't pulling your leg. That's how I'd imagined it too.