UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #12

[bbsaz]

The texts introduced her health problems.

Is it some prelude to later medical testimonies concerning her?

JMO

Or....please notice me doctor..Im interesting to you because I have a semi unusual medical condition since childhood....Im also really good in an emergency....notice me please...

JMO

 

[Cardgame]

Jmo
Many nurses would have their phones in their pockets.
It wouldn't be usual to use your phone in the vicinity of patients..but at the nurses station or in the treatment rooms etc it would be common

For me though there does seem above average messaging ...and an awful lot around work ...but I suppose living alone away from hometown its possible work might consume her life.

Regarding the "nice babies and parents" comment...I really do not see that as relevant...often a nurse might say a patient or their relatives are lovely...and some can be horrible... it doesn't mean they get less care ...its just life

Thank you for this info about texting, really useful.

As for the nice comment, yes I see your point, however, this isn't just one of the wards.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but for me, it's bizarre because imagine she was working in the adult intensive care. A ward full of patients who can't move or breathe on their own etc, critically ill.

At the end of a shift on that ward, who are the 'nice' patients?

[Edited for typos]

 

[Sundial]

Thank you for this info about texting, really useful.

As for the nice comment, yes I see your point, however, this isn't just one of the wards.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but for me, it's bizarre because imagine she was working in the adult intensive care. A ward full of patients who can't move or breathe on their own etc, critically ill.

At the end of a shift on that ward, who are the 'nice' patients?

[Edited for typos]

What I find unusual, is the prosecution say she was “bored” at work, lack of stimuli with babies who just needed help with feeding (heard in evidence so far); but if you have a baby with complex care needs, or needs help other than feeding- I’m not sure how either (complex or just feeding) can be “nice”. There is hardly if ever an “ideal” patient as such. One scenario is feeding, the other could be challenging and stressful. Neither situation I would particularly use the word as “nice” to describe my patients whatever help it was that they needed from me.

Of course it could just be completely irrelevant and a purely innocent term too JMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

What’s the chances that love interest doctor wasn’t aware of the whispers about LL being associated with these increased deaths?

I wonder whether LL’s outburst in court was to do with a feeling of betrayal and embarrassment, that the interest he showed towards her was not romantic in nature, it was in fact based on a question around whether she was the ultimate cause of the deaths, and he was fully aware of what was being said about her.

Just wild speculation by me, and my own opinion.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Thank you for this info about texting, really useful.

As for the nice comment, yes I see your point, however, this isn't just one of the wards.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but for me, it's bizarre because imagine she was working in the adult intensive care. A ward full of patients who can't move or breathe on their own etc, critically ill.

At the end of a shift on that ward, who are the 'nice' patients?

[Edited for typos]

Personally I don’t see the “nice parents/babies” as strange in the slightest.

They use strange terms for the patients anyway. I think I recall someone saying a baby that had been collapsing had been “misbehaving” or something to that effect. Also something about attention seeking. Nurses are human, they have to get through the day doing a job that many of us wouldn’t be able to.

I expect some parents are nice to the nurses, and some are not. Some babies “behave” and some do not. Describing the patients and families as “nice” or not seems insignificant to me. JMO.

 

[Sundial]

What’s the chances that love interest doctor wasn’t aware of the whispers about LL being associated with these increased deaths?

I wonder whether LL’s outburst in court was to do with a feeling of betrayal and embarrassment, that the interest he showed towards her was not romantic in nature, it was in fact based on a question around whether she was the ultimate cause of the deaths, and he was fully aware of what was being said about her.

Just wild speculation by me, and my own opinion.

An interesting point; it was mentioned in his messages yesterday he wanted her opinion on something and she reflected to her colleague (questioned for opinion actually) something along the lines of “he was being odd/does he seem odd”. I wonder what that may have been about or why she thought that. We didn’t get to hear more about what he asked her (unless it will be revealed in due course).

 

[notsure]

Thank you for this info about texting, really useful.

As for the nice comment, yes I see your point, however, this isn't just one of the wards.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but for me, it's bizarre because imagine she was working in the adult intensive care. A ward full of patients who can't move or breathe on their own etc, critically ill.

At the end of a shift on that ward, who are the 'nice' patients?

[Edited for typos]

Taken together with the previous text about one of the parents answering the door of the bedroom wearing very little... these comments come across as judgemental, imo. Nurses are human and can't help having views on people, but voicing them is another matter, imo. But, in the context of the case at hand, quite a useful indicator of character.

 

[WaxLyrical]

An interesting point; it was mentioned in his messages yesterday he wanted her opinion on something and she reflected to her colleague (questioned for opinion actually) something along the lines of “he was being odd/does he seem odd”. I wonder what that may have been about or why she thought that. We didn’t get to hear more about what he asked her (unless it will be revealed in due course).

It was the asking her opinion thing that really stood out for me. Obviously we don’t know what it was, he might’ve been asking her if she prefers Nando’s or Wagamama’s. But. If it was a medical question, that feels more like fishing for information, questioning her knowledge. Which, based on what we know of LL so far, she would have lapped up. JMO.

Hopefully it will all become clear in time.

 

[Sundial]

It was the asking her opinion thing that really stood out for me. Obviously we don’t know what it was, he might’ve been asking her if she prefers Nando’s or Wagamama’s. But. If it was a medical question, that feels more like fishing for information, questioning her knowledge. Which, based on what we know of LL so far, she would have lapped up. JMO.

Hopefully it will all become clear in time.

Yes this too, quite interesting he asked an opinion but the evidence didn’t clarify further on *what* this was. I have a feeling (by her reaction towards his name the other day) and conversations provided in evidence thus far between them, we may hear more about this person/discussions between them in due course.
Jmo

 

[Tortoise]

3:07pm

Letby messages her colleague at 5.10am: 'Awake already'
Her colleague replies: "I wouldn't come in!"
Letby: "Oh...why"
The colleague replies: "5 admissions, 1 vent"
LL: "OMG"
Colleague: "Baby [N] screened, looks like s**t"

I wonder why they are actually introducing these messages? They seem to have very little, if anything, to do with the allegations against her. How are these evidence of, or relevant to, anything the prosecution is trying to show?

I really fail to see the benefit to them.

An understanding of the relevance of the messages requires following the timeline of events and the evidence being presented in court, in most instances.

The above quoted messages at 5.10am weren't included for the language used by the nurses, IMO. They were to show what LL knew about baby N two hours before she arrived for her day shift, whereupon she went straight into the room where he was being looked after. His collapse 5 minutes later is the second allegation of the attempted murder of baby N.

"A colleague said Lucy Letby came into the room to say hello, but when the nurse's back was turned, Letby told her Child N had desaturated before assiting with the breathing."

"He [the doctor] was “surprised by his anatomy more than anything else … I could not visualise parts of the back of his throat because of swelling”.
The doctor saw "fresh blood" in Child N's throat, which the prosecution say was the same seen in Childs C, E and G.
The doctor was unable to get the breathing tube down the throat of Child N as he was unable to visualise the child's tracheal inlet.
He attempted to intubate Child N on three occasions."

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

A doctor colleague messages Lucy Letby before 11am to ask: "Is he ok?"
Letby notes, at 11am: 'Small amount of fresh blood orally and 1ml from NG tube'
Letby messages the doctor in response: 'Small amounts of blood from mouth & 1ml from NG. Looks like pulmonary bleed on xray...
"Sorry if I was off during intubation...I like things to be tidy & calm (Well, as much as possible!)"

3:44pm

The doctor responds: "No, you were perfectly fine with me...I thought you were wanting to just get on with in case there was another desat."

3:47pm

Letby replies: 'Well I have got my hair in a bun today, it's only fitting that I was 'serious Lucy' !!'
Letby adds 'no more bleeding thankfully', in relation to Child N.

The above messages were introduced into evidence to show that LL did not bring the bleeding to the attention of anyone else. She was replying to the doctor's message on Facebook half an hour after more bleeding.


[in police interview] "She could not explain the entry in her notes timed at 10am on June 15 in which she recorded aspirating more fresh blood which she had not apparently brought to the attention of anyone else."

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes this too, quite interesting he asked an opinion but the evidence didn’t clarify further on *what* this was. I have a feeling (by her reaction towards his name the other day) and conversations provided in evidence thus far between them, we may hear more about this person/discussions between them in due course.
Jmo

And her colleague's reply of "go commando?" ie "wear no knickers" suggests that either there had been some previous flirting or mention of going comando before, or that the Dr was known for that kind of sexual banter.

 

[ColourPurple]

"A colleague said Lucy Letby came into the room to say hello, but when the nurse's back was turned, Letby told her Child N had desaturated before assiting with the breathing."


Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

That's another potential pattern that seems to be emerging. LL being in the same room as the baby and their designated nurse and then the baby collapsing/de-sating while the designated nurse has their back to the baby

 

[Sundial]

And her colleague's reply of "go commando?" ie "wear no knickers" suggests that either there had been some previous flirting or mention of going comando before, or that the Dr was known for that kind of sexual banter.

Which the colleague had also noticed about this (or knew of/LL told her about). Either way the communication is shared with the colleague about him “being odd”. The colleagues response is quite intriguing I feel and the prosecution felt it was relevant to include in the evidence. IMO

 

[Cardgame]

An understanding of the relevance of the messages requires following the timeline of events and the evidence being presented in court, in most instances.

The above quoted messages at 5.10am weren't included for the language used by the nurses, IMO. They were to show what LL knew about baby N two hours before she arrived for her day shift, whereupon she went straight into the room where he was being looked after. His collapse 5 minutes later is the second allegation of the attempted murder of baby N.

"A colleague said Lucy Letby came into the room to say hello, but when the nurse's back was turned, Letby told her Child N had desaturated before assiting with the breathing."

"He [the doctor] was “surprised by his anatomy more than anything else … I could not visualise parts of the back of his throat because of swelling”.
The doctor saw "fresh blood" in Child N's throat, which the prosecution say was the same seen in Childs C, E and G.
The doctor was unable to get the breathing tube down the throat of Child N as he was unable to visualise the child's tracheal inlet.
He attempted to intubate Child N on three occasions."

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders


The above messages were introduced into evidence to show that LL did not bring the bleeding to the attention of anyone else. She was replying to the doctor's message on Facebook half an hour after more bleeding.


[in police interview] "She could not explain the entry in her notes timed at 10am on June 15 in which she recorded aspirating more fresh blood which she had not apparently brought to the attention of anyone else."

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

Great points, thank you for clarifying.

Horrible to imagine, if guilty, what is going through her mind on the way to work. Already planning to attack a baby whose previous desat might prove a useful cover?

 

[katydid23]

I’m quite curious about that “shut up”. Unusual for her judging by personal coms. We don’t have the delivery but we do have context and following texts. The “odd” question is interesting as well. A tentative opening to a potential question of “does he love me”? Do you think?

the odd and shut up part are fitting but I’m not sure about the “shut up” that’s a bit blunt for her I think. Did the question open a door ? Or is this normal girly banter on the ward between friends?

I think 'shut up' is fun girly banter between friends. My daughter and her friends say it in a 'fun' way , like a teasing each other way.

 

[marynnu]

Personally I don’t see the “nice parents/babies” as strange in the slightest.

They use strange terms for the patients anyway. I think I recall someone saying a baby that had been collapsing had been “misbehaving” or something to that effect. Also something about attention seeking. Nurses are human, they have to get through the day doing a job that many of us wouldn’t be able to.

I expect some parents are nice to the nurses, and some are not. Some babies “behave” and some do not. Describing the patients and families as “nice” or not seems insignificant to me. JMO.

All JMO.

I agree 100%. It's like saying your next door neighbours are lovely - that doesn't mean the other neighbours aren't, does it!
I used to say a baby had been misbehaving/naughty/playing up if they were unstable. It has no significance whatsoever.

 

[katydid23]

I know it almost certainly means nothing, but hypothyroidism since she was 11 and has been having blips for the last 12 months? How interesting. To me, anyway!

​

Hypothyroidism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Related disorders​

Thyroid hormone abnormalities are common in major psychiatric disorders including bipolar disorder; clinical research has shown there is a high rate of thyroid dysfunction in mood disorders and schizophrenia-spectrum disorders, concluding that there is a case for screening for the latter among people with thyroid illness

 

[Becky53]

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Nurse Lucy Letby's murder trial continues at Manchester Crown Court this morning. We'll be continuing to hear evidence in relation to Child N. Ms Letby is accused of attempting to murder the premature baby boy on three occasions in June 2016. She denies all charges.

 

[katydid23]

I agree ..was she trying to appear "in charge" in front of the Dr.
The first thing I thought when she mentioned the hair in the bun ..was maybe fishing for flirty compliments

It just seems so weird to mention you are wearing your hair in a bun that day, to a doctor while you are both on shift. It seems pretty familiar or casual, or forced, even. Kind of awkward even?

 

[katydid23]

To me ..using Facebook messenger is something someone might do when you do not know their phone number (yet)

Is it kind of weird that a doctor on his shift, in NICU, would even be checking his Facebook messages?