UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[LorriB]

I'm not sure which Chester report you are referring to. Opening speech?

Yes should have linked. Recap: Prosecution continues opening of Lucy Letby trial

So it does seem that the opening speech was incorrect and I can't see any recorded reference to the length of time. Suggests to me we just have Dr Breareys recollection which was gathered in police interviews years later.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes should have linked. Recap: Prosecution continues opening of Lucy Letby trial

So it does seem that the opening speech was incorrect and I can't see any recorded reference to the length of time. Suggests to me we just have Dr Breareys recollection which was gathered in police interviews years later.

Or perhaps, I don't know I'm just hazarding a guess here, since he clearly was aware that this death was going to be investigated, disappearance of the rash might have been noted elsewhere, for instance in a report of an unexpected death, or report for the coroner.

JMO

 

[Anxala]

Have people seen this? A bit more detailed than some reporting, IMO. Apologies if already posted.

Senior hospital executive ignored warnings about killer Lucy Letby

Karen Rees, a duty executive in urgent care in June 2016, insisted there was no evidence against Letby, and refused to take her off duty until the unexplained death of a triplet was investigated.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I'm not a fan in any shape or form of the DM and normally avoid it/links to it like the plague it is, but I read this and there's this, according to Dr Brearey re Karen Rees and her position re LL:

'She responded ''Yes, she would be happy''. I said ''Would you be happy if something happened to any of the babies the following day?'' She said ''Yes''.

Has this been reported elsewhere? Did she actually say this? Can this actually be true?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Or perhaps, I don't know I'm just hazarding a guess here, since he clearly was aware that this death was going to be investigated, disappearance of the rash might have been noted elsewhere, for instance in a report of an unexpected death, or report for the coroner.

JMO

Does anyone have Any ideas on how the report for the coroner would work? I’m finding that such an interesting aspect of this case.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I'm not a fan in any shape or form of the DM and normally avoid it/links to it like the plague it is, but I read this and there's this, according to Dr Brearey re Karen Rees and her position re LL:



Has this been reported elsewhere? Did she actually say this? Can this actually be true?

Yip is true. Not the only article to mention it.

Hospital executive warned three times about Lucy Letby, court is told

First time response of hospital chiefs has been mentioned in trial of neonatal nurse accused of killing seven babies

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[LorriB]

Or perhaps, I don't know I'm just hazarding a guess here, since he clearly was aware that this death was going to be investigated, disappearance of the rash might have been noted elsewhere, for instance in a report of an unexpected death, or report for the coroner.

JMO

Entirely possible it was noted somewhere we just haven't heard about. I don't know how it would sit if something is mentioned in the coroner's report/other report that wasn't specifically noted in the clinical notes.

 

[Tortoise]

Entirely possible it was noted somewhere we just haven't heard about. I don't know how it would sit if something is mentioned in the coroner's report/other report that wasn't specifically noted in the clinical notes.

Well he wasn't there the whole time from first collapse to last. He came back about two hours later and I'm not sure what the practice is for doctors' clinical notes where there has been a change during a period of absence, knowing the baby has been under the care of others during that period. Possibly the lack of a rash would not make it into notes.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Entirely possible it was noted somewhere we just haven't heard about. I don't know how it would sit if something is mentioned in the coroner's report/other report that wasn't specifically noted in the clinical notes.

Would be interesting to know if prompts via medical notes would change the tests and investigations done post mortem. I think you could take for granted that imaging was done, we have seen evidence for it. I don’t think toxicology reports would be applicable though, is AE an issue of poison or mechanical cause? In which case the physical investigation takes precedent in finding cause.

 

[Anxala]

Psychopaths don't really 'do' consequences though, do they? so questions like 'how did she think she would get away with it?' might actually be answered by.... She didn't think about it. Or at least, not as a more typical person might.

Why wasn't she trying to cover her tracks more?
Maybe grandiosity? Impulsivity? Sheer inability to put herself in other people's shoes, therefore an inability to guess their next move?

If guilty of course. All MOO.

If guilty, that would certainly make some sense of this madness. But if she's suffering from some form of psychopathology, then surely that would be a known quantity in that she'd most certainly have undergone intense psychiatric evaluation in the intervening years between her imprisonment and this trial. If she were a diagnosed psychopath, then surely we'd be in the loop by this late stage of the game?

Are you suggesting that BM could be defending a known psychopath? I'm only asking.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't think defendants who plead not guilty and don't need psychiatric treatment while they are awaiting trial are subjected to psychiatric evaluations. That might be something a judge would order, post conviction, for sentencing purposes.

JMO

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

If guilty, that would certainly make some sense of this madness. But if she's suffering from some form of psychopathology, then surely that would be a known quantity in that she'd most certainly have undergone intense psychiatric evaluation in the intervening years between her imprisonment and this trial. If she were a diagnosed psychopath, then surely we'd be in the loop by this late stage of the game?

Are you suggesting that BM could be defending a known psychopath? I'm only asking.

If that has been shown in tests, we'd only hear about it if she was convicted and sentenced. People with these conditions might well not be revealed by evaluations if they are shrewd in the answers they give to questions. All people on trial are entitled to a professional legal defence, whatever mental issues they might have.

 

[Tortoise]

"Dr Evans [...] invited police to ask an expert pathologist to view the available evidence 'and to ask whether, in the pathologist's view, it was likely to be the result of trauma'. [...]

Dr Sandie Bohin, [...] added: 'Certainly the medical and nursing personnel are sure they've not seen them before or since, but have said that they were graphic'.

When interviewed about the alleged murder Letby told detectives that mottled skin was seen regularly in neonates, though not 'to this extent'.

She said she remembered the infant's abdomen repeatedly swelling up. His death was 'unexpected: and it had left her feeling 'shocked and upset'.

Letby agreed she had been caring for Baby O alone at the time a registrar – the one she was frequently messaging on Facebook at the time – had gone to speak to his parents.

When asked who had harmed the baby, she replied: 'It wasn't me'.

She recalled messaging a nursing colleague to suggest a cause of death as sepsis or NEC, a serious inflammation of the gut. She thought that at the time because 'it was a discussion they had all had' on the unit."

read more at link

Baby killed with injection of air by nurse Letby, medical expert says

Dewi Evans, a leading paediatrician called in by the prosecution, said he could see no evidence that the collapse of Baby O could have been accidental.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

The court heard that Ms Letby carried out a Facebook search for the mother of Child O on the anniversary of the baby's death in June 2017, when asked why by police she "could not explain why she would be doing it".

Lucy Letby: Baby triplet died after trauma to liver, jury told

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of killing the baby triplet after returning from a holiday in Ibiza.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

She carried out a Facebook search for child O's mother on the anniversary of the baby's death. She couldn't explain to police why she did that.

Lucy Letby: Baby triplet died after trauma to liver, jury told

 

[JosieJo]

She carried out a Facebook search for child O's mother on the anniversary of the baby's death. She couldn't explain to police why she did that.

Lucy Letby: Baby triplet died after trauma to liver, jury told

How does she remember exact anniversaries? Is this not the first time ?

 

[WaxLyrical]

The court heard that Ms Letby carried out a Facebook search for the mother of Child O on the anniversary of the baby's death in June 2017, when asked why by police she "could not explain why she would be doing it".

Lucy Letby: Baby triplet died after trauma to liver, jury told

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of killing the baby triplet after returning from a holiday in Ibiza.

www.bbc.co.uk

So incredibly strange. I feel like whether someone was guilty or innocent they’d still give an explanation for these FB searches. I assume she didn’t have a lawyer present during these police interviews.

 

[LorriB]

Well he wasn't there the whole time from first collapse to last. He came back about two hours later and I'm not sure what the practice is for doctors' clinical notes where there has been a change during a period of absence, knowing the baby has been under the care of others during that period. Possibly the lack of a rash would not make it into notes.

This is where I find it problematic.

The implication today was that the mention of the rash/mottling being very short lived was only passed to Dr Evans in 2018 by police. I would have thought if it was documented originally, he would have taken it into account originally.

IF it was the case and the Dr only mentioned in in his police interviews some years later (and it may not be the case - just I've seen nothing to say it was noted prior) then we are relying on memory only. We know memory recall years later isn't as reliable. JMO of course.

 

[WaxLyrical]

How does she remember exact anniversaries? Is this not the first time ?

I think this was the one that happened on brexit day, so reasonable to recall that one since it would’ve been publicised. But she did seem to remember a lot of the anniversaries..

 

[marynnu]

I think this was the one that happened on brexit day, so reasonable to recall that one since it would’ve been publicised. But she did seem to remember a lot of the anniversaries..

Does anyone remember 'Brexit day' though?

 

[notsure]

Does anyone remember 'Brexit day' though?

No, I think we tried to forget it.