UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[Tortoise]

Her speech would have been most professional.

Her eyes would have conveyed her terror to the transporting doctor.

The sobbing begging father clinched it.

I'm wondering if the pricked finger came during all of this scene. I know it said during resus, but I'm finding it hard to place her visit to A&E with all that was going on with dressing the babies too, before the transfer. JMO

 

[Dcflag]

Shocking evidence we're hearing. Clearly the strongest evidence was always going to be for these last 3 cases, as it was so strong that it resulted in LL being taken off duty even though management were clearly very much not wanting to do this. If guilty, the thrill she got from attacking these babies must have been intense to override the obvious risk to herself in being so brazen as to attack 3 babies in 3 nights, and healthy ones at that. Comparatively speaking, if guilty, she was more careful in the months before, varying the methods, spacing them out more, attacking babies that were more unwell. I think if she hadn't been so brazen as to kill 2/3 triplets and attack another baby on successive nights, then she would have remained on the unit for a lot longer.

If guilty (which as we all know, she is currently innocent until proven otherwise) and this is all my own opinion of course. I imagine being a serial killer isn’t sustainable and largely down to whatever mental issue you have to have to be one. Lots of serial killers get to a point where they lose that self preservation, they lose that control and they just suddenly do things that get them caught.

 

[marynnu]

This all sounds like a neonatal nurse or doctor's worst nightmare. How you could even contemplate coming to work the next day defeats me.

 

[katydid23]

Shocking evidence we're hearing. Clearly the strongest evidence was always going to be for these last 3 cases, as it was so strong that it resulted in LL being taken off duty even though management were clearly very much not wanting to do this. If guilty, the thrill she got from attacking these babies must have been intense to override the obvious risk to herself in being so brazen as to attack 3 babies in 3 nights, and healthy ones at that. Comparatively speaking, if guilty, she was more careful in the months before, varying the methods, spacing them out more, attacking babies that were more unwell. I think if she hadn't been so brazen as to kill 2/3 triplets and attack another baby on successive nights, then she would have remained on the unit for a lot longer.

Exactly. I have always thought these last 3 babies were indicative of her, allegedly, acting compulsively, and in a very risky manner. It was different than before. Like something escalated somehow?

I am very curious to hear what the defense will put up in response to the final three babies. It cannot just be suboptimal care or a witch hunt at that point.

Those last 2 babies were being looked after by the highest most experienced doctors on staff. No one was neglecting them.

And it is not a 'witch hunt' or confirmation bias, when a nurse returns from vacation, and the 3 healthy babies in her direct care, collapse 3 nights in a row. JMO

 

[Dcflag]

Her speech would have been most professional.

Her eyes would have conveyed her terror to the transporting doctor.

The sobbing begging father clinched it.

I genuinely think that without the dr, the transport team wouldn’t have entertained it. My memory is terrible but I’m sure, was there not a mother who wanted to transfer her care to another hospital and was refused? We also see lots of babies transferring out and then coming back to coch, so I assume it’s not super common for babies to go home from arrowe park (or higher level baby care facilities)?

 

[esther43]

IDK for sure---but I think the judge might be saying, don't testify to that here and now, there are other ways to bring in those broader conclusions----like during re-direct or in closing arguments or ?

We are going USA style, objection your honour! I think the witness was potentially implying something connected to the death toll in 2025-16 that's not part of the cases we've heard so far.
Could be to to do with suspicious activity relating to other deaths in the same time frame or relating to the decreased death toll since going to admin.

 

[ColourPurple]

We are going USA style, objection your honour! I think the witness was potentially implying something connected to the death toll in 2025-16 that's not part of the cases we've heard so far.
Could be to to do with suspicious activity relating to other deaths in the same time frame or relating to the decreased death toll since going to admin.

I wondered whether he mentioned how it had been in the month of June both years that there had been a cluster of the unexpected collapses.

 

[marynnu]

I genuinely think that without the dr, the transport team wouldn’t have entertained it. My memory is terrible but I’m sure, was there not a mother who wanted to transfer her care to another hospital and was refused? We also see lots of babies transferring out and then coming back to coch, so I assume it’s not super common for babies to go home from arrowe park (or higher level baby care facilities)?

You're completely correct, this is highly unusual. The total desperation must have had quite an impact. I wonder how aware these staff were of the problems at CoC?

 

[JosieJo]

It's clear you guys don't think it's the case she is remembering she was more shocked than she was at the time. That's fine, we all interpret what we read differently.

As I said, this is just my opinion based on my experience in my psychology studies of what we learnt can be the case with recall in court cases.

She reported it a few days later though

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m

We're now back after a short break for lunch. Dr Oliver Rackham is now in the witness box. He was part of the transport team from Arrowe Park Hospital (he was overseeing the transport of Child P to the hospital before his death)

 

[Imogenia]

I genuinely think that without the dr, the transport team wouldn’t have entertained it. My memory is terrible but I’m sure, was there not a mother who wanted to transfer her care to another hospital and was refused? We also see lots of babies transferring out and then coming back to coch, so I assume it’s not super common for babies to go home from arrowe park (or higher level baby care facilities)?

I think that you are correct.

 

[marynnu]

It's clear you guys don't think it's the case she is remembering she was more shocked than she was at the time. That's fine, we all interpret what we read differently.

As I said, this is just my opinion based on my experience in my psychology studies of what we learnt can be the case with recall in court cases.

I don't much care about what she remembers. Trust me, she was shocked. Anybody would be as it was a terrible thing to say.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4m

Dr Rackham was on the neonatal transport team responsible (called Connect) in June 2016. He remembers being given a briefing on 24 June about Child P (he had suffered a number of desats that morning)

 

[Penny68]

'Just thinking out loud here'. My heart breaks to think of the parents of the surviving triplet, for the rest of their lives everything their surviving triplet does they will always think ''There should be another two children with the one enjoying their lives''.

As same for the parents of surviving baby B after losing their other twin.

Of course devastating as well for the parents of the 4 other precious babies LL is accused of killing.

 

[Imogenia]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m

We're now back after a short break for lunch. Dr Oliver Rackham is now in the witness box. He was part of the transport team from Arrowe Park Hospital (he was overseeing the transport of Child P to the hospital before his death)

Thank God for this doctor.

Anyway, if two identical triplets suddenly and unexpectedly die, of course the one surviving needs assessed for all manner of esoteric, rather unknown genetic anomalies.

The correct action was to get the babe into the transport ambulance pronto.

My opinion

 

[Imogenia]

'Just thinking out loud here'. My heart breaks to think of the parents of the surviving triplet, for the rest of their lives everything their surviving triplet does they will always think ''There should be another two children with the one enjoying their lives''.

As same for the parents of surviving baby B after losing their other twin.

Of course devastating as well for the parents of the 4 other precious babies LL is accused of killing.

This is all poignant and very true.

I also worry about surviving children as they grow up, and learn about their siblings who passed away.

It’s difficult enough to learn about death and dying.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
3m

The medic tells the court that soon after he arrived at the Countess of Chester, at around 3pm, to transport Child P he collapsed and needed resuscitation. During the course of that resus he received seven doses of adrenaline - all to no effect

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m

Dr Rackham said the medics 'had no explanation for why' Child P collapsed. Asked, with his experience, if he could give any reason for Child P's collapse, he said 'there was no obvious cause, it didn't fit with any obvious reason'

 

[Penny68]

I genuinely think that without the dr, the transport team wouldn’t have entertained it. My memory is terrible but I’m sure, was there not a mother who wanted to transfer her care to another hospital and was refused? We also see lots of babies transferring out and then coming back to coch, so I assume it’s not super common for babies to go home from arrowe park (or higher level baby care facilities)?

If my memory is right I think it was the mother of the surviving triplet, she asked the transport team to take her with them as well, but they could only take the baby with them. The mother made her way to the other hospital and they kindly admitted her into their care.

 

[Cardgame]

The evidence about LL offering the parents a memory box 'like it's a bounty pack' is utterly chilling and completely devastating. I feel angry and quite emotional reading it. A very powerful moment for the prosecution IMO.

 

[notsure]

This is all poignant and very true.

I also worry about surviving children as they grow up, and learn about their siblings who passed away.

It’s difficult enough to learn about death and dying.

I read about Elvis Presley's twin brother, who was stillborn. It had a big effect on the whole family, and Elvis often talked about how he missed his brother.