UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[marynnu]

It could be read as either if the doctor is the female doctor. Dan really needs to be clearer. But why would Dr A have spent 20 minutes talking to the other dctor about exactly how the CPR was carried out if it was actually LL who carried out the CPR. Surely he'd just ask LL. Therefore my money is on it being the female Dr who carried out the CPR and being worried about having damaged the liver.

20 minutes seems a long time to me, either way. And why say 'it was all at the 5th intercostal space between the nipples' to the person who did it? Or to anyone really, then declare that 'he does not have any independent recollection of that resuscitation and that he was managing the airway during it'.

 

[marynnu]

Anyone got any ideas on the individual most likely to actually do the chest compressionS? In other cases it’s been the nurse who has written the meds etc so assumed the nurse would be more non hands role whereas the doctor would be the lead practitioner. I would guess the nurse would be hands on until a doctor arrived and then they take over.

It could be anybody, to be honest. Nurses don't usually initiate chest compressions on a neonate, as by the time it gets to this situation a doctor is normally there. But there's no reason why a doctor would perform this more than a nurse. It just depends who's free.

 

[ColourPurple]

20 minutes seems a long time to me, either way. And why say 'it was all at the 5th intercostal space between the nipples' to the person who did it? Or to anyone really, then declare that 'he does not have any independent recollection of that resuscitation and that he was managing the airway during it'.

The way I'm reading it is that the the female doctor was worried that she may have caused the liver injury through CPR, so she and Dr A had a 20 minute discussion, during which he asked how she'd done the CPR (as he coudlnt see as he was managing the airways) and she explained she did it between the nipples. He then relayed all that info to LL in a text.

If the other doctor turns out to be male then I'm completely wrong lol. Hopefully the press association reporter makes it a bit clearer!

 

[Dotta]

But the prosecution would know that the texts were going to be used. Plus if the liver injury/bruising in O and P was caused by CPR, it still wouldn't explain the initial collapses in both babies.

And also other Babies with resus but NO liver injuries found during PM.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue


We're back after lunch. Consultant paediatrician Dr John Gibbs is up in the witness box next. The court has previously heard that after the deaths of triplet brothers Child O and P on the 23 and 24 June, Dr Gibbs had become 'concerned' about Ms Letby's presence on the unit.

 

[squish]

For me personally, whether questioning themselves or LL, I feel that this doctor was just trying to find an explanation and could think of nothing else. If you're not thinking assault it's the only other theoretical possibility, though unlikely in the extreme. JMO.

Yes exactly, that's what I was trying to say

 

[squish]

And also other Babies with resus but NO liver injuries found during PM.

JMO

If guilty, there's a possibility that the liver injury could have been slyly caused deliberately during CPR, in addition to previous alleged assaults that led to the CPR being needed on babies O and P in the first place.

Maybe the perpetrator (if there was a perpetrator) was getting sick of the CPR being successful after the previous five babies survived.

 

[Dotta]

Maybe the perpetrator (if there was a perpetrator) was getting sick of the CPR being successful after the previous five babies survived.

I can't help but see (alleged) progressive mental disintegration.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

The way I'm reading it is that the the female doctor was worried that she may have caused the liver injury through CPR, so she and Dr A had a 20 minute discussion, during which he asked how she'd done the CPR (as he coudlnt see as he was managing the airways) and she explained she did it between the nipples. He then relayed all that info to LL in a text.

If the other doctor turns out to be male then I'm completely wrong lol. Hopefully the press association reporter makes it a bit clearer!

Yeh wouldn’t they have included ll in the cubicle discussion if they wanted to go over it with everyone who was participating?

 

[marynnu]

The way I'm reading it is that the the female doctor was worried that she may have caused the liver injury through CPR, so she and Dr A had a 20 minute discussion, during which he asked how she'd done the CPR (as he coudlnt see as he was managing the airways) and she explained she did it between the nipples. He then relayed all that info to LL in a text.

If the other doctor turns out to be male then I'm completely wrong lol. Hopefully the press association reporter makes it a bit clearer!

If you're right, though not necessarily significant to the case, I don't think it would be very professional for him to repeat this discussion to another member of staff. JMO.

 

[ColourPurple]

If you're right, though not necessarily significant to the case, I don't think it would be very professional for him to repeat this discussion to another member of staff. JMO.

True and it's not clear if the conversation took place before or after LL was moved to clerical. If it's after and her care of O and P were mentioned to her as part of the reason she was moved then this is info she could potentially use as part of her grievance.

 

[DianaWW]

Do we know if he still works there? It must be very awkward/embarrassing having these messages read out if he does! JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Not sure if Katy has gone to bed so I'll post these in case


Dan O'Donoghue
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Dr Gibbs is asked about a message, Ms Letby sent to a doctor - who cannot be named - on the night of 25 June. Letby asks if she should be 'worried' about what Dr Gibbs had been asking nurses on the unit that day

Dan O'Donoghue
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

From his recollection, Dr Gibbs tells the court he was asking nurses who was caring for Child Q at the time of his collapse as he had become increasingly concerned about unusual collapses and deaths on the unit. He said he would not normally ask who was looking after a child

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[marynnu]

Or

Do we know if he still works there? It must be very awkward/embarrassing having these messages read out if he does! JMO

Or even if he doesn't!!

 

[ColourPurple]

Dan O'Donoghue

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans, who was asked to review the case by Cheshire Police in 2017, is now in the witness box

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[Legal]

If you're right, though not necessarily significant to the case, I don't think it would be very professional for him to repeat this discussion to another member of staff. JMO.

Yes, I thought this too, especially recounting a discussion between doctors to a nurse.

 

[marynnu]

Yes, I thought this too, especially recounting a discussion between doctors to a nurse.

It makes me wonder if he was trying to help LL, as this message must have been sent almost exactly when she got moved to clerical duties. All JMO of course!

 

[JosieJo]

JMO but think Myers is "peeing" against the wind trying to say such severe liver injuries occured by CPR in a hospital neonatal unit.
Everyone would be used to CPR plus normally if someone is doing it too hard or wrong place etc another colleague would jump in

I think ..and JMO it seems that Dr Choc and the other female Dr talked thing through trying to understand the liver injury that had probably come back on post mortem

What is I interesting is that Dr Choc was still feeding information by text to LL in early July ..albeit likely he had no idea of the potential consequences

 

[Dotta]

JMO but think Myers is "peeing" against the wind trying to say such severe liver injuries occured by CPR in a hospital neonatal unit.
Everyone would be used to CPR plus normally if someone is doing it too hard or wrong place etc another colleague would jump in

I think ..and JMO it seems that Dr Choc and the other female Dr talked thing through trying to understand the liver injury that had probably come back on post mortem

What is I interesting is that Dr Choc was still feeding information by text to LL in early July ..albeit likely he had no idea of the potential consequences

Exactly.
That is why professional conduct and Dr A are not compatible for me.
Sorry.
JMO

 

[JosieJo]

Exactly.
That is why professional conduct and Dr A are not compatible for me.
JMO

I really doubt he understood the potential consequences..at the time he may have just been letting a colleague know about the post mortem results which wouldn't be uncommon if that colleague had been looking after the baby