UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[ColourPurple]

Mails podcast had landed.

This week, Caroline and Kim Pilling, standing in for Liz, go over what the court heard about the final baby in this case, Baby Q. He was a baby boy who was considered to be stable, until one morning when he collapsed just after Lucy Letby had left the nursery he was in.

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 27: Baby Q “I was worried about what was happening on our unit.”

www.mailplus.co.uk

Thanks!

Not much we didn't already know this week. Though Myer's strategy of claiming that Dr Evans he was exaggerating when he said Baby Q had crashed, was a strange one.

 

[esther43]

Thanks for the link.
When Myers tries to suggest that child Q's crash was not really a crash... And then Evans ' he was desatting into his 60's requiring Neopuff derrrr'

 

[Anxala]

I'd really like to see her do it bit I'd be staggered if she did!

I can't imagine what her state of mind must be like at this stage. I'd imagine very fragile, innocent or guilty,

I can't see her taking the stand either way. I particularly can't see her taking the stand if innocent.

 

[marynnu]

Thanks!

Not much we didn't already know this week. Though Myer's strategy of claiming that Dr Evans he was exaggerating when he said Baby Q had crashed, was a strange one.

Thanks. I do like the podcasts even if they don't contain anything new, they help me focus!

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks!

Not much we didn't already know this week. Though Myer's strategy of claiming that Dr Evans he was exaggerating when he said Baby Q had crashed, was a strange one.

Myers has been minimising baby Q's condition throughout his cross-examinations IMO

Ms Lappalainen agreed with Ben Myers KC, defending, that Child Q stabilised “relatively quickly”.
Lucy Letby: Alarms sounded at baby’s cot shortly after nurse left room

Ms Letby's defence lawyer, Ben Myers KC, is now questioning the doctor. He points out that the medic arrived on neonatal unit at 09:17 (Child Q crashed just after 9am). Myers says 'a fair amount of activity had happened already at that point', the doctor agrees

He also agrees that Child Q had a 'rapid' recovery from the collapse
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

 

[esther43]

Myers has been minimising baby Q's condition throughout his cross-examinations IMO

Ms Lappalainen agreed with Ben Myers KC, defending, that Child Q stabilised “relatively quickly”.
Lucy Letby: Alarms sounded at baby’s cot shortly after nurse left room

Ms Letby's defence lawyer, Ben Myers KC, is now questioning the doctor. He points out that the medic arrived on neonatal unit at 09:17 (Child Q crashed just after 9am). Myers says 'a fair amount of activity had happened already at that point', the doctor agrees

He also agrees that Child Q had a 'rapid' recovery from the collapse
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

 

[notsure]

On the one hand, I feel I'd want to take the stand and testify to my own innocence; on the other hand, I would be open to being tied up in knots by the prosecutor. Difficult dilemma, I imagine.

 

[katydid23]

I can't imagine what her state of mind must be like at this stage. I'd imagine very fragile, innocent or guilty,

I can't see her taking the stand either way. I particularly can't see her taking the stand if innocent.

I would think taking the stand would be more likely, if she is innocent. If so, she would have good reasonable answers to the questions. If I was innocent, I think I'd want to take the stand to explain what happened.

If guilty, allegedly, she'd be less confident about answering the tough questions.

 

[esther43]

I can't think what

I would think taking the stand would be more likely, if she is innocent. If so, she would have good reasonable answers to the questions. If I was innocent, I think I'd want to take the stand to explain what happened.

If guilty, allegedly, she'd be less confident about answering the tough questions.

 

[esther43]

Completely agree. On a personal level, wild horses wouldn't keep me away. Though it is hard to truly empathise I suppose unless you've been in a situation when all your freedom is riding on it. For me though, as selfish as it seems (because I have children) if innocent, I think I'd rather risk never seeing freedom again than not having my say and putting it out there personally that there NO WAY I was a baby killer. My integrity would have to come first.
Also, if I wasn't willing to stand up and defend myself, not sure it would be reasonable to expect others to do so on my behalf.

 

[Dotta]

Also, if I wasn't willing to stand up and defend myself, not sure it would be reasonable to expect others to do so on my behalf.

Absolutely!

Paraphrasing:

"Fate" helps those who help themselves

JMO

 

[Parker Knoll]

Really tricky situation on giving evidence. I have seen defendants crucified in the witness box and have been absolutely terrible who have been found NG - you just never know how it’s going to go. BM cannot control the narrative, advise or speak to her if she does decide to take the stand and that’s a problem. However she did not go “no comment” in the police interviews as far as we have been informed - she could of done that or given a prepared statement which again she didn’t do. She may want to speak up.
Who knows but we will know shortly.

 

[esther43]

Really tricky situation on giving evidence. I have seen defendants crucified in the witness box and have been absolutely terrible who have been found NG - you just never know how it’s going to go. BM cannot control the narrative, advise or speak to her if she does decide to take the stand and that’s a problem.

Please provide links for actual "ongoing historical issues", not suspected ones, but actual ones.

I'm not suggesting it's because the defence is required to do it that way, but that it's their choice to do it that way, by trying to elicit uncertainty or biases, for example. IMO. If they do have experts I think the jury would hear directly from them, not merely through cross-examination of the prosecution experts. That's just my opinion.

Mr Myers asks if, from Dr Neame's note showing Neopuff was used, it could have contributed to the distended abdomen. Dr Bohin said it would not have done so to that extent.

She may want to speak up.
Who knows but we will know shortly.

It's definitely favourable that she cooperated with the police interviews, if she gave evidence and the expert witnesses were discredited, she'd stand a chance I think.
How probable it is that they will find counter experts is another thing, unfortunately without their backing I think her efforts will be null in void.

 

[Dotta]

IMO
Defence will have to contradict:
- opinions of experts
- opinions of consultants
- patterns shown

And reasonably explain:
- the note
- FB searches of parents
- hospital documents found at home
- falsifying the notes

And not to mention other things (strange behaviour noticed by parents and staff).

I'm really curious how all these matters will be dealt by Defence.

JMO

 

[Parker Knoll]

In that you are not alone Dotta !

 

[katydid23]

IMO
Defence will have to contradict:
- opinions of experts
- opinions of consultants
- patterns shown

And reasonably explain:
- the note
- FB searches of parents
- hospital documents found at home
- falsifying the notes

And not to mention other things (strange behaviour noticed by parents and staff).

I'm really curious how all these matters will be dealt by Defence.

JMO

Yes, and they will have to show that it was just big coincidences that she seemed to be the only one that was connected to all the collapses.

Was there another staff member that was present also, for ALL of these events?

 

[JosieJo]

Yes, and they will have to show that it was just big coincidences that she seemed to be the only one that was connected to all the collapses.

Was there another staff member that was present also, for ALL of these events?

No ..if I remember correctly out of the 22 charges , the next highest number of coinciding shifts was 7

 

[Dotta]

There is an issue (among others) in this case that is REALLY bugging me.

It is the brushing off the concerns of Consultants by management.
But mainly by this exec nurse (whatever) who was contacted by anxious Dr B.

What was the matter?

Was/Is there an undercurrent animosity between nurses/doctors staff?

I would think there is a common goal - safety and wellbeing of patients.
That they were/are 1 team.

I don't get these "internal issues"

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

There is an issue (among others) in this case that is REALLY bugging me.

It is the brushing off the concerns of Consultants by management.
But mainly by this exec nurse (whatever) who was contacted by anxious Dr B.

What was the matter?

Was/Is there an undercurrent animosity between nurses/doctors staff?

I would think there is a common goal - safety and wellbeing of patients.
That they were/are 1 team.

I don't get these "internal issues"

JMO

Complicated scenario Dotta. In all my life I have never really known any group or organisation have seamless coherency especially when delegated with certain responsibilities. You have differences of opinion, differences in POV, differences in approach And differences in responsibilities. All of these things don’t really make for an environment without contest. It’s never a thing that someone clicks their fingers and everyone sets to.

all in all I think in the managements eyes the fact of their being no evidence of anything amiss at that time would be the only thing to be considered.

its a bit like if something happened at your school an their was multiple potential reasons for it and no evidence other than the thing that happened and a fellow staff member of yours reported you for it because you were the closest to it and you were then dismissed/punished how would you feel? Assuming ofc you didn’t actually do anything wrong


it’s i Think as close to a baseless accusation at that time as I can think of. Looking at how other staff spoke of her she was doing a good job. Even with baby q everyone said her job was faultless. She was performing well so all in all nothing to talk to her about.

 

[Dotta]

and a fellow staff member of yours reported you for it because you were the closest to it and you were then dismissed/punished how would you feel? Assuming ofc you didn’t actually do anything wrong

There is nothing to assume haha