UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[Dotta]

Kind of makes the “I killed them on purpose” post it note evidence feel a bit weaker knowing they had it for 2.5yrs before they charged her.

Quite the contrary IMO

Why would anybody write about killing babies when not charged of murders/attempts?

It was a personal note - for her eyes only.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Quite the contrary IMO

Why would anybody write about killing babies when not charged of murders/attempts?

It was a personal note - for her eyes only.

JMO

Self blame is a well documented occurrence Dotta. Often part of a inevitable cognitive process that one has little control of. Is potentially applicable. At the point of writing the note, she was aware of the police investigation it was announced and she obviously knew what exactly it would be that would be under investigation. Hence why she was gathering info about the years events. one thing I did notice about the note, is that she references the deaths but nothing about the collapses or harm she allegedly Caused to the babies that survived the alleged attempts. That infers that they were not registered as wrongdoings in her mind. Why mention the deaths but not the alleged attempts? Suggesting she wasn’t aware that they were suspicious seemingly along with everything else. Suggesting she doesn’t know exactly what she will be charged with.

Self-Blame: The Ultimate Emotional Abuse

Self-blame is one of the most toxic forms of emotional abuse. It amplifies our perceived inadequacies, whether real or imagined, and paralyzes us.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Dotta]

Self blame is a well documented occurrence Dotta. Often part of a inevitable cognitive process that one has little control of. Is potentially applicable. At the point of writing the note, she was aware of the police investigation it was announced and she obviously knew what exactly it would be that would be under investigation. Hence why she was gathering info about the years events. one thing I did notice about the note, is that she references the deaths but nothing about the collapses or harm she allegedly Caused to the babies that survived the alleged attempts. That infers that they were not registered as wrongdoings in her mind. Why mention the deaths but not the alleged attempts? Suggesting she wasn’t aware that they were suspicious seemingly along with everything else. Suggesting she doesn’t know exactly what she will be charged with.

Self-Blame: The Ultimate Emotional Abuse

Self-blame is one of the most toxic forms of emotional abuse. It amplifies our perceived inadequacies, whether real or imagined, and paralyzes us.

www.psychologytoday.com

You have your opinion.
And I have mine.

That's the beauty of the forum - exchanging opinions, right?

Well, this issue I wrote about has its illustration in a popular saying in my country:

"Hit the table
And the scissors will rattle"

If you know what I mean

Well
Anyway, we will soon learn the truth - in May I suppose.

JMO

 

[esther43]

I don't really get something

So,
she said in Police questioning she didn't remember WHY she checked parents' FB, right?

On Anniversaries of deaths??

Really?

JMO

Even more interesting still is when the searches were carried out, largely, every time a baby died or soon after. Not like she was only looking them up after being taken off the unit..

 

[DianaWW]

And it wasn’t just after a death either. She searched parents of babies that lived, as well as ones that she’s accused of attempting to murder. Often she’d search different sets of parents in quick succession. Some that had lived, and some that had died. There was something linking them in her mind. JMO.

 

[esther43]

Exactly, 'the clustering' the looking back on babies who died previously when a another new baby dies.
8 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby A - murder charge - designated nurse

9 Jun 2015 – 9.58am - Facebook mother of A&B

10 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby B - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

10 Jun 2015 – 11.31pm - Facebook mother of A&B

Handover sheet for Baby B found at LL’s home during police search

14 Jun 2015 - Baby C - murder charge – not designated nurse

14 Jun 2015 – 3.32pm - Facebook parents Baby C

22 Jun 2015 - Baby D - murder charge - not designated nurse

25 Jun 2015 – 9.50pm – Facebook mum of A&B

25 Jun 2015 – 9.51pm – Facebook parents of Baby D

8 Jul 2015 – Baby B went home.

4 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby E - murder charge - designated nurse

5 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby F - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse

6 Aug 2015 – 7.58pm - Facebook mother of E&F

10 Aug 2015 – F went home.

23 Aug 2015 – Facebook mother of E&F

2 Sep 2015 – Facebook mum of A&B

7 Sep 2015 - Baby G - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

9 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents of A&B

14 Sep 2015 – Facebook mother E&F

19 Sep 2015 – LL asks her colleague how A&B’s parents are. She doesn’t search them again after this.

21 Sep 2015 - Baby G - 2 x attempted murder charges - designated nurse

21 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents Baby G

21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook mother of E&F

21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook another mother

26 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - designated nurse

27 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse

30 Sep 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - designated nurse

Oct 2015 – (either 3rd, 10th, 17th, 24th or 31st) Facebook father of Baby D

5 Oct 2015 – abt 1.16am – Facebook mother of Baby I

5 Oct 2015 – abt 1.17am – Facebook father of E&F

5 Oct 2015 – 1.18am - Facebook mother of H
13 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - not designated nurse

14 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - designated nurse

22 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - not designated nurse

23 Oct 2015 - Baby I - murder charge - (same) night – not designated nurse
After Baby I’s death LL sent a sympathy card to Baby I’s parents and kept a photo of it on her phone

5 Nov 2015 – 11.41pm - Facebook mother E&F

5 Nov 2015 – 11.44pm – Facebook mother of G

5 Nov 2015 – 11.44pm – Facebook mother of I

27 Nov 2015 - Baby J - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

Nov 2015 – Facebook parents Baby J

7 Dec 2015 – Facebook mother of E&F

25 Dec 2015 – 11.26pm - Facebook mother of E&F

Jan 2016 – Facebook mother of E&F

10 Jan 2016 – Facebook mother of E&F last time

17 Feb 2016 - Baby K - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse

9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby L - attempted murder charge – unclear whether designated nurse

9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby M - attempted murder charge – unclear whether designated nurse

Handwritten log of drugs for Baby M during his collapse found at LL’s house and she had noted his collapse in her diary.

29 May 2016 – 11pm – Facebook – mother of I

3 Jun 2016 - Baby N - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

15 Jun 2016 - Baby N - 2 x attempted murder charges - designated nurse

23 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby O - murder charge - designated nurse

24 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby P - murder charge – designated nurse – but care transferred – non-designated

25 Jun 2016 - Baby Q - attempted murder charge - designated nurse

Handover sheet for morning of 25 Jun 2016 for Baby Q found at LL’s home

Jul 2016 – LL removed from clinical setting

23 Jun 2017 – anniversary of Baby O’s death – Facebook surname of Baby O

Apr 2018 – Facebook parents of Baby K

Lucy Letby: Hereford nurse was "constant malevolent presence", court told

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[marynnu]

dbm

 

[Dotta]

Exactly, 'the clustering' the looking back on babies who died previously when a another new baby dies.
8 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby A - murder charge - designated nurse

9 Jun 2015 – 9.58am - Facebook mother of A&B

10 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby B - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

10 Jun 2015 – 11.31pm - Facebook mother of A&B

Handover sheet for Baby B found at LL’s home during police search

14 Jun 2015 - Baby C - murder charge – not designated nurse

14 Jun 2015 – 3.32pm - Facebook parents Baby C

22 Jun 2015 - Baby D - murder charge - not designated nurse

25 Jun 2015 – 9.50pm – Facebook mum of A&B

25 Jun 2015 – 9.51pm – Facebook parents of Baby D

8 Jul 2015 – Baby B went home.

4 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby E - murder charge - designated nurse

5 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby F - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse

6 Aug 2015 – 7.58pm - Facebook mother of E&F

10 Aug 2015 – F went home.

23 Aug 2015 – Facebook mother of E&F

2 Sep 2015 – Facebook mum of A&B

7 Sep 2015 - Baby G - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

9 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents of A&B

14 Sep 2015 – Facebook mother E&F

19 Sep 2015 – LL asks her colleague how A&B’s parents are. She doesn’t search them again after this.

21 Sep 2015 - Baby G - 2 x attempted murder charges - designated nurse

21 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents Baby G

21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook mother of E&F

21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook another mother

26 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - designated nurse

27 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse

30 Sep 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - designated nurse

Oct 2015 – (either 3rd, 10th, 17th, 24th or 31st) Facebook father of Baby D

5 Oct 2015 – abt 1.16am – Facebook mother of Baby I

5 Oct 2015 – abt 1.17am – Facebook father of E&F

5 Oct 2015 – 1.18am - Facebook mother of H
13 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - not designated nurse

14 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - designated nurse

22 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - not designated nurse

23 Oct 2015 - Baby I - murder charge - (same) night – not designated nurse
After Baby I’s death LL sent a sympathy card to Baby I’s parents and kept a photo of it on her phone

5 Nov 2015 – 11.41pm - Facebook mother E&F

5 Nov 2015 – 11.44pm – Facebook mother of G

5 Nov 2015 – 11.44pm – Facebook mother of I

27 Nov 2015 - Baby J - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

Nov 2015 – Facebook parents Baby J

7 Dec 2015 – Facebook mother of E&F

25 Dec 2015 – 11.26pm - Facebook mother of E&F

Jan 2016 – Facebook mother of E&F

10 Jan 2016 – Facebook mother of E&F last time

17 Feb 2016 - Baby K - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse

9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby L - attempted murder charge – unclear whether designated nurse

9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby M - attempted murder charge – unclear whether designated nurse

Handwritten log of drugs for Baby M during his collapse found at LL’s house and she had noted his collapse in her diary.

29 May 2016 – 11pm – Facebook – mother of I

3 Jun 2016 - Baby N - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse

15 Jun 2016 - Baby N - 2 x attempted murder charges - designated nurse

23 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby O - murder charge - designated nurse

24 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby P - murder charge – designated nurse – but care transferred – non-designated

25 Jun 2016 - Baby Q - attempted murder charge - designated nurse

Handover sheet for morning of 25 Jun 2016 for Baby Q found at LL’s home

Jul 2016 – LL removed from clinical setting

23 Jun 2017 – anniversary of Baby O’s death – Facebook surname of Baby O

Apr 2018 – Facebook parents of Baby K

Lucy Letby: Hereford nurse was "constant malevolent presence", court told

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

11 cases when she was NOT a designated nurse.
Wow!

Didn't she also hint at something concerning "a new girl"?
As if this "new girl" was at fault?

JMO

 

[marynnu]

dbm

 

[marynnu]

Apr 2018 – Facebook parents of Baby K

That's news to me. It seems a particularly odd thing to do, even compared to the oddness of the other searches IMO.

 

[marynnu]

dbm

 

[esther43]

That's news to me. It seems a particularly odd thing to do, even compared to the oddness of the other searches IMO.

Isn't it? And this was before her arrest wasn't it? And child K died elsewhere? It's possible that during this non-clinical period of her career LL had been reflecting on incidents that had potentially led up to her (then) current circumstances.
But why child K, surely if child K was transferred to another hospital due to deterioration, why would she then assume his death was in any way related to the predicament she found herself in?
If she was worried she was struck off due to poor care, not sure how K would even come into her head, he died elsewhere, days after in LL's care. If that was natural disease progression, she wouldn't be making an association there IMO

 

[marynnu]

Isn't it? And this was before her arrest wasn't it? And child K died elsewhere? It's possible that during this non-clinical period of her career LL had been reflecting on incidents that had potentially led up to her (then) current circumstances.
But why child K, surely if child K was transferred to another hospital due to deterioration, why would she then assume his death was in any way related to the predicament she found herself in?
If she was worried she was struck off due to poor care, not sure how K would even come into her head, he died elsewhere, days after in LL's care. If that was natural disease progression, she wouldn't be making an association there IMO

I can't make any sense of it. Assuming it's correct, this is the only search for Baby K 's parents that we know of. And as you say, of all the incidents it doesn't seem to have the most significance.
She was arrested 3/7/18 according to Wiki.

 

[Becci]

I can't make any sense of it. Assuming it's correct, this is the only search for Baby K 's parents that we know of. And as you say, of all the incidents it doesn't seem to have the most significance.
She was arrested 3/7/18 according to Wiki.

Maybe heard the rumours of dr j accusing her of dislodging the tube or stood doing nothing. Just a thought

'TV doctor Ravi walked in on Lucy Letby 'attacking 98-minute-old baby''

A CONSULTANT paediatrician at the Countess of Chester Hospital walked in on neonatal nurse Lucy Letby 'trying to kill' a 1lb 8oz baby that had been…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[esther43]

I can't make any sense of it. Assuming it's correct, this is the only search for Baby K 's parents that we know of. And as you say, of all the incidents it doesn't seem to have the most significance.
She was arrested 3/7/18 according to Wiki.

Maybe heard the rumours of dr j accusing her of dislodging the tube or stood doing nothing. Just a thought

'TV doctor Ravi walked in on Lucy Letby 'attacking 98-minute-old baby''

A CONSULTANT paediatrician at the Countess of Chester Hospital walked in on neonatal nurse Lucy Letby 'trying to kill' a 1lb 8oz baby that had been…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Yes, if she were suspicious of Ravi, then her mind may have been cast back to any incidents that could have led to her being put on admin.
Remembering also, that in the context of what is normal, most of the incidents should have stuck out like sore thumbs. Each of the incidents described are things that might happen once a year in a level 2 IMO.
It is beyond me how SO many deaths occured in a level 2 in one year. I'm just glad there were people there who eventually put an end to it. Especially triplet mum.

 

[Dotta]

I'm just glad there were people there who eventually put an end to it. Especially triplet mum.

Yes.
It is reassuring that there are still people who care deeply about patients and are brave enough to fight for them - even against some colleagues.

And are ready to appear in Court to fight for Justice for victims.

I feel Respect for them!

JMO

 

[katydid23]

It’s just the way I see it tbh. A difference in motivation. The guilty knows they are guilty and actively try’s to present themselves as innocent that includes removing things that make them look guilty. Innocent people are much more straight up and they hide nothing.

You are saying it is just your way of seeing it. But then make a statement that seems like you are saying is a fact:
" Innocent people are much more straight up and they hide nothing. "

That^^ is not factual. I have seen MANY cases where a murder suspect, although innocent of the murder, has tried to hide negative info about their marriage or their business failings, in an attempt to look better to the detectives.

That does not make them guilty of murder but it does make them shady.

We have seen instances of LL's medical notes not matching the observations and notes and testimony of her colleagues. So it may be true that she does hide things also.

Police investigators would very much disagree with you that it isnt a sign of innocence what it isn’t is proof of innocence. Obviously any police doing interviews look at you very differently if you comply and cooperate with the investigation for instance if you say “no comment” to everything they say they look at you like your hiding something. another example relevant to the US is lie detectors, if you take it and pass it’s considered in your favour but not necessarily proof.

i can give you an example of how this is known to people in the criminal world, recently in the UK we had a trial involving a hitman who murdered a child. He complied with the investigation even telling them he was a high level drug dealer, that was supposed to be perceived by the police as an olive branch. An offering of something as proof of good character only thing is it was a false offering. The evidence said otherwise to what he said. He was lying.

I can't follow the above...sorry...

The evidence was different in this case, she had more than ample opportunity to remove the evidence but didn’t.

Right, she didn't remove the evidence. Maybe she was attached to it somehow and couldn't let it go?

Another example of this in the court system is that it is perceived that it is in one’s favour to take the stand in ones own defence.

I don't understand how that is an example of innocence. Many innocent people never took the stand and were still acquitted and perceived as innocent

 

[katydid23]

It’s just the way I see it tbh. A difference in motivation. The guilty knows they are guilty and actively try’s to present themselves as innocent that includes removing things that make them look guilty. Innocent people are much more straight up and they hide nothing.

You are saying it is just your way of seeing it. But then make a statement that seems like you are saying it is a fact:
" Innocent people are much more straight up and they hide nothing. "

That^^ is not factual. I have seen MANY cases where a murder suspect, although innocent of the murder, has tried to hide extramarital affairs or their business failings, in an attempt to look better to the detectives.

That does not make them guilty of murder but it does make them shady.

We have seen instances of LL's medical notes not matching the observations and notes and testimony of her colleagues. So it may be true that she does hide things also. It does not mean she is guilty of murder however.

Police investigators would very much disagree with you that it isnt a sign of innocence what it isn’t is proof of innocence. Obviously any police doing interviews look at you very differently if you comply and cooperate with the investigation for instance if you say “no comment” to everything they say they look at you like your hiding something. another example relevant to the US is lie detectors, if you take it and pass it’s considered in your favour but not necessarily proof.

i can give you an example of how this is known to people in the criminal world, recently in the UK we had a trial involving a hitman who murdered a child. He complied with the investigation even telling them he was a high level drug dealer, that was supposed to be perceived by the police as an olive branch. An offering of something as proof of good character only thing is it was a false offering. The evidence said otherwise to what he said. He was lying.

I can't follow the above...sorry...

The evidence was different in this case, she had more than ample opportunity to remove the evidence but didn’t.

Right, she didn't remove the evidence. Maybe she was attached to it somehow and couldn't let it go?

Another example of this in the court system is that it is perceived that it is in one’s favour to take the stand in ones own defence.

I don't understand how that is an example of innocence. Many innocent people never took the stand and were still acquitted and perceived as innocent

 

[katydid23]

Self blame is a well documented occurrence Dotta. Often part of a inevitable cognitive process that one has little control of. Is potentially applicable. At the point of writing the note, she was aware of the police investigation it was announced and she obviously knew what exactly it would be that would be under investigation. Hence why she was gathering info about the years events. one thing I did notice about the note, is that she references the deaths but nothing about the collapses or harm she allegedly Caused to the babies that survived the alleged attempts. That infers that they were not registered as wrongdoings in her mind. Why mention the deaths but not the alleged attempts? Suggesting she wasn’t aware that they were suspicious seemingly along with everything else. Suggesting she doesn’t know exactly what she will be charged with.

How do we know she wasn't talking about the collapses as well?

Self-Blame: The Ultimate Emotional Abuse

Self-blame is one of the most toxic forms of emotional abuse. It amplifies our perceived inadequacies, whether real or imagined, and paralyzes us.

www.psychologytoday.com

This article makes it sound more like a process of confession, IMO:

The first step in releasing self-blame is recognizing responsibility. In other words, who owns what and where does our personal ownership lie? If we have done our due diligence, if we have entered into the moment honestly and with authenticity, then, should things go awry, it will be clear how much of that is ours to own.

The next step is taking on that responsibility. Taking responsibility is not the same as taking the blame. The idea of blame suggests there is some implied wrongness afoot—an abject negative. Taking responsibility means acknowledging our part in what is wrong. That wrong is not an abject negative, but a circumstance we have created by virtue of our action or inaction.


Is that^^^ what her notes were about? Taking accountability and acknowledging her part in what went wrong?

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Looking forward to hearing the rest of the prosecution case. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some more interesting messages exchanged from around the time when LL was moved to admin duties to the first arrest. I want to know what she was doing and saying after that first arrest too.

The only thing I feel that we are missing so far is her general internet searches. If, at any time after her move to admin she was searching up things linked to air embolism or what evidence could be found at post mortem for example. I find it difficult to believe that, if guilty, LL didn’t perform any searches on her mobile for anything related to what she had allegedly done.

Even if innocent I would have expected her to have been researching what could possibly have happened to the babies, especially when, as we now know she was looking up the babies’ family members on Facebook. So these cases were clearly on her mind. Obviously giving her the benefit of the doubt, wouldn’t it fit to see some internet searches on symptoms, sudden collapses for example? As she was talking to colleagues and clearly seemed very work orientated, it would make sense that she’d searched other things aswell as the families.

We will see what emerges this week, and of course when the defense can finally present their case, I am very interested to see what evidence they have.
All MOO