UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[JosieJo]

Surely they would still remain archived electronically? I can't believe that they get automatically deleted at the end of each shift.

It's plausible that she printed them off while on admin duties if she was collecting info in relation to the grievance she initiated.

Not sure what every hospital did but ours were not kept ...the boxes with new patients would be changed..discharges removed ...ne required info added...basically imo they get overwritten and updated ...not started from scratch each day

 

[ColourPurple]

To add; Handovers do get archived in the electronic system. I actually recall a conversation many years ago now with a colleague, I can’t remember what I asked, but they did say something along the lines of “I’ll have to check that with the previous days handovers”.
Handovers are typed by each lead nurse (usually) and then printed several times (to hand out to the new shift, anyone who didn’t get one but needed one (example someone starting shift later/dr appointments etc) just prints them off, but they are still available/archived for some while. (Indefinitely, I don’t know however, but it’s quite likely)
My experience only.

Do you mean that the handover sheets that were given out at handover before nurses had made written comments on were archived... or that the handover sheets that the nurses had carried around all day and written on were archived? As in physically filed away rather than disposed of? Also are you UK or US based?

Probably not relevant in this case as the ones the police found in LL's house were the ones with handwritten comments on the back etc, but still interesting to know. TIA

 

[Marantz4250b]

Any important info the nurses had written on it would/should be written up in the baby's records so why would they need to archive the sheet itself? It'd be like archiving the actual paper towel with the adrenalin doses on, rather than adding the info on the paper towel to the baby's records.

But we've also heard how the handover sheets that were found had "handwritten" observations of babies written on the back (eg real time temperatures of babies etc recorded throughout the day) It'd be obvious to police if the sheets were printed off copies not the actual ones which would have the handwritten comments rather than photocopies of handwritten comments.

I meant archived from when they were created. They create the sheet ready for the next shift coming on duty on the hospital systems and print them off. The electronic copy is still in existence on the hospital servers or whatever, though.

Yes, the ones which were written on are clearly originals from the days in question, but are they all like that? Has she perhaps printed all the ones she didn't have copies of in support of this greivance thing?

 

[Tortoise]

Surely they would still remain archived electronically? I can't believe that they get automatically deleted at the end of each shift.

It's plausible that she printed them off while on admin duties if she was collecting info in relation to the grievance she initiated.

It's not plausible, IMO.

It would have been a good answer if it was true, but her barrister earned his silk by being outstanding, and he would have said it if there was any chance it was true. He would have asked the officer on the stand if he knows when they were printed. And the prosecution wouldn't be presenting it as sinister.

LL's text July 15th 2016 -

Hoping to get as much info together as possible today -if they have nothing or minimal on me they'll look silly, not me.

Lucy Letby was transferred from unit over doctors' fears, trial hears

Ben Myers KC - October 13th 2022 -

Mr Myers refers back to the note shown to the court just before the break.
He said it is a note written in anguish and despair.
She was "going through a grievance procedure" with the NHS at the time, the court hears, and knew what was being said about her before her arrest. [...]

There was further paperwork the police took from Letby's address at the time of her arrest.
The defence say the paperwork was "nothing more extraordinary" than Letby being someone who scribbles a lot of work down, and keeps hold of it.

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

Benjamin Myers KC, for Letby's defence, says a total of 257 handover sheets were recovered in the police search. Of those, 21 related to babies in the indictment.
Four of them were in the 'Ibiza bag' and 17 were in the Morrisons bag.
DC Johnson agrees.
Mr Myers says that meant 236 handover sheets were not in relation to the indictment.

3:02pm

DC Collin Johnson confirms four of the babies in relation to the indictment do not feature in any of the handover notes recovered at Letby's addresses.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, April 17

 

[Sundial]

Not sure what every hospital did but ours were not kept ...the boxes with new patients would be changed..discharges removed ...ne required info added...basically imo they get overwritten and updated ...not started from scratch each day

Interesting; I wish ours were as simple!
Ours were updated similarly but always had copies on file from previous shifts.
I actually remember watching lead nurse once spend about a hour before the shift ended to type up handover notes. They’d use previous shift notes to refer back to and the present shift to amend any on-going needs etc; but those previous handovers were still accessible via archive weeks or so after.

Very time-consuming imo

 

[ColourPurple]

I meant archived from when they were created. They create the sheet ready for the next shift coming on duty on the hospital systems and print them off. The electronic copy is still in existence on the hospital servers or whatever, though.

Yes, the ones which were written on are clearly originals from the days in question, but are they all like that? Has she perhaps printed all the ones she didn't have copies of in support of this greivance thing?

Ah OK then yes I can understand them having a copy of the original handover sheet without the handwritten comments etc.

Like I said, I think if they weren't all originals that were found it would be obvious to police (ie they'd have no written notes on at all) and they'd have listed the number of both types found. Plus she probably wouldn't have had 4 missing if they were something she could print off easily and without detection at a later date.

 

[Sundial]

Do you mean that the handover sheets that were given out at handover before nurses had made written comments on were archived... or that the handover sheets that the nurses had carried around all day and written on were archived? As in physically filed away rather than disposed of? Also are you UK or US based?

Probably not relevant in this case as the ones the police found in LL's house were the ones with handwritten comments on the back etc, but still interesting to know. TIA

I’m uk, handover sheets before nurses jot notes on them are archived where I am and in other places where I’ve worked (private and nhs).
Anything you jot notes on has no means or value outside of the hospital (not to mention hugely confidential information) and should be disposed of in the unit/place you work in proper bin for incineration. I’ve only ever known them to be burnt although I believe some places shred them, incinerating waste usually collects them. They don’t keep archived copies of nurses notes on them no, but the actual handover sheet prior to being printed is. IMO

 

[ColourPurple]

I’m uk, handover sheets before nurses jot notes on them are archived where I am and in other places where I’ve worked (private and nhs).
Anything you jot notes on has no means or value outside of the hospital (not to mention hugely confidential information) and should be disposed of in the unit/place you work in proper bin for incineration. I’ve only ever known them to be burnt although I believe some places shred them, incinerating waste usually collects them. They don’t keep archived copies of nurses notes on them no, but the actual handover sheet prior to being printed is. IMO

Thanks for the explanation. That all makes sense!

 

[Kemug]

I have no idea if LL is guilty or not guilty, at least not yet. But it seems to me that she is most likely going to found guilty, and then jailed for a very long time. And it occurs to me that she might be put on Suicide Watch, as her mind is obviously very troubled and unhappy. JMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

I think at least a couple of the babies were born on the same day they were allegedly attacked, this could be the reason why some babies aren’t appearing on handover sheets, they weren’t actually on the ward yet at the point of handover. JMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It's not plausible, IMO.

It would have been a good answer if it was true, but her barrister earned his silk by being outstanding, and he would have said it if there was any chance it was true. He would have asked the officer on the stand if he knows when they were printed. And the prosecution wouldn't be presenting it as sinister.

LL's text July 15th 2016 -

Hoping to get as much info together as possible today -if they have nothing or minimal on me they'll look silly, not me.

Lucy Letby was transferred from unit over doctors' fears, trial hears

Ben Myers KC - October 13th 2022 -

Mr Myers refers back to the note shown to the court just before the break.
He said it is a note written in anguish and despair.
She was "going through a grievance procedure" with the NHS at the time, the court hears, and knew what was being said about her before her arrest. [...]

There was further paperwork the police took from Letby's address at the time of her arrest.
The defence say the paperwork was "nothing more extraordinary" than Letby being someone who scribbles a lot of work down, and keeps hold of it.

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

Benjamin Myers KC, for Letby's defence, says a total of 257 handover sheets were recovered in the police search. Of those, 21 related to babies in the indictment.
Four of them were in the 'Ibiza bag' and 17 were in the Morrisons bag.
DC Johnson agrees.
Mr Myers says that meant 236 handover sheets were not in relation to the indictment.

3:02pm

DC Collin Johnson confirms four of the babies in relation to the indictment do not feature in any of the handover notes recovered at Letby's addresses.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, April 17

Good points, thanks.

I honestly don't know what to think in relation to these sheets; on the one hand it looks deeply sinister then, on the other, not at all sinister.

If she has a habit of keeping them for whatever reason (some form of compulsive disorder) then it's not sinister at all, merely strange. If it were only the sheets relating to babies in the charges she kept then that would be a whole different matter.

This trial makes my head spin at times, quite frankly!

 

[DianaWW]

Lucy Letby: The handwritten messages found in her bedroom

HANDWRITTEN messages found by police at Lucy Letby's Chester home have been revealed.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Some new ‘note’ pictures released.

 

[Tortoise]

Good points, thanks.

I honestly don't know what to think in relation to these sheets; on the one hand it looks deeply sinister then, on the other, not at all sinister.

If she has a habit of keeping them for whatever reason (some form of compulsive disorder) then it's not sinister at all, merely strange. If it were only the sheets relating to babies in the charges she kept then that would be a whole different matter.

This trial makes my head spin at times, quite frankly!

Well, ALL of the sheets relating to the babies in the charges, so that's 21 sheets relating to 13 of the babies in the charges (for four of the babies there were no sheets at all in her home), were found in the Morrisons and Ibiza bags under her bed.

The remaining 236 sheets not in those bags didn't relate to the babies in the allegations.

I think that says something - that it's not coincidence that those sheets put in the bags were babies she allegedly harmed, before she knew which babies were deemed suspicious by medical experts and the police. At least six of those 13 babies were not deaths. She selected the ones to put in bags.

The fact that for four of the babies in the charges there was no handover sheet at all in her home, not just not in the bags but not in her home, so not just floating around and mixed in with the other random 236 unrelated handover sheets, also says something, to me. It appears more likely than not that she would have had those sheets had they been available to her, based on her having such a vast collection. Or perhaps she did have them but police never found where she put them or she'd destroyed them.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Lucy Letby: The handwritten messages found in her bedroom

HANDWRITTEN messages found by police at Lucy Letby's Chester home have been revealed.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Some new ‘note’ pictures released.

Unfortunately, I cannot decipher them.
"Medical" handwriting

 

[Tortoise]

one of those notes, the white paper with red and black blotches on it, I just searched a line she has repeated throughout it, in one joined up sentence, "love is all we needed but time let us down" it's a lyric in the song All We Needed by Craig David, which was released on 11th November 2016.

It was the BBC Children in Need single for that year.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Nali87]

Hello everyone! I’ve been following the trial off-Websleuths.. Normally, I make up my mind regarding guilt pretty early but man in this case, I just don’t know. Anyways, looking forward to reading your thoughts and insights.

 

[marynnu]

I'm finding these notes a difficult thing to see. It's like watching someone's mind disintegrate.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Bergerac is probably a nickname for kathryn de beger then?

I think it’s clear several of the post it notes were done during phone calls. Makes sense I suppose since they’re post its.

Those other sheets, well, I’ll be getting the ole magnifying glass out tonight lol

 

[Anxala]

Bergerac is probably a nickname for kathryn de beger then?

I think it’s clear several of the post it notes were done during phone calls. Makes sense I suppose since they’re post its.

Those other sheets, well, I’ll be getting the ole magnifying glass out tonight lol

Yes, re Bergerac. I think so too. And yes, re tel calls. I have a pad beside my screen and it's filled with chaos - random words, half finished sentences, wholly unconnected other sentences, odd and sometimes scary drawings, repeated random numbers, all going in all directions on the page, all of which make sense to me as notes/doodles related to calls I've taken but, were I accused of a crime, might look like the ramblings and work of a very unhinged person.

I'm attempting to read the notes at the moment. They're reasonably legible if you increase screen view (I'm looking at them at 200%).

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Lucy Letby: The handwritten messages found in her bedroom

HANDWRITTEN messages found by police at Lucy Letby's Chester home have been revealed.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Some new ‘note’ pictures released.

that piece of paper with tigger and smudge written all over it and the weird arrow symbols is genuinely unhinged, it feels weird to even look at tbh