UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[Nali87]

Why do you refer to the doctor as Dr Choc?

 

[ColourPurple]

Why do you refer to the doctor as Dr Choc?

We don't know his real name but he texted her once to tell her to look on a shelf at work. He'd left a bar of chocolate on the shelf for her.

 

[katydid23]

But what if you didn't think these were possibilities?

She texted that she thought they were possibilities. That's why I answered that way. She told her colleagues these were possible explanations for the babies she lost.

 

[katydid23]

Why do you refer to the doctor as Dr Choc?

When we first heard of him, he had messaged LL< and told her he left her some secret chocolates to make her feel better. Than they had a long discussion about her preferring biscuits to chocolate but they would do.

 

[bobbymkii]

In my head I've been referring to him as Dr 'A' as the Mail+ podcast ladies have been.
Infact, one thing that's been really bugging me about this trial is the anonymous hospital staffers. I think they should have been given a letter of the alphabet like the victims were so we can better know which were present for each case.
Nurse E
Midwife B
Doctor A

Etc.

 

[Sweeper2000]

In my head I've been referring to him as Dr 'A' as the Mail+ podcast ladies have been.
Infact, one thing that's been really bugging me about this trial is the anonymous hospital staffers. I think they should have been given a letter of the alphabet like the victims were so we can better know which were present for each case.
Nurse E
Midwife B
Doctor A

Etc.

I think they should have been called after chocolate bars. Dr twix or dr kitkat, nurse toblerone and midwife Mars.

 

[katydid23]

Talking about personalising the loss, reminds me of her birthday message allegedly to one of the babies on the note. Apparently one of the triplets?

The "I don't know if anyone will think of you today or any day but I will"

Sorry but WTAF?? Regardless of whether she's innocent or guilty, did she really think that the devastated grieving parents would not think of their lost baby every day for the rest of their lives, and that the anniversary of their birthday would not be even more heartbreaking for them? Is she really that detached from reality and focused on herself that she thought she'd be the only one to think of them on their birthday?

That her grief for a baby that she looked after for a shift or two at most, trumped the grief of their mother, who carried them for months, felt their every movement and kick inside her, made plans for them, picked names for them, gave birth to them?

And it reminded me so much of the sympathy card LL sent to baby I's mother. The last part of which I always thought sounded more like it was addressed to Baby I than her grieving parents "Thinking of you today and always. Sorry I cannot be there to say goodbye."

IMO

I agree wholeheartedly. It is that^^^ kind of thought pattern---'stealing other's grief for oneself'----that makes me think of Munchausen by proxy. There is a big emphasis upon the grief rituals and being a part of them, and then discussing them with others, even in her relationship with Dr A.

So many instances---like the triplets parents saying she seemed to be inconsolable at one point, even sobbing harder than they were...at other times, when bringing in deceased newborns she had bathed and dressed, she seemed upbeat and animated. The head nurse having to ask her repeatedly to stay out of the family area when they were grieving. And 2 parents who said she came in as their baby was taking his last breath and LL asked if they wanted her to put him in the cart to be taken away. The annoyed Mum said he's not passed yet and was upset at the suggestion.

And even when she loses 2 babies in a row, and people suggest she take a self care break, she refuses and says she really wants to go right back in room 1 with the sickest babies. I think most nurses in the unit would have taken the suggestion.

My friend worked in oncology and she did lose many young patients. So I would understand her desire to keep working with her other patients because it is normal that a certain percentage are not going to make it.

But nurse Letby was not working in oncology or in an emergency room with severely injured babies. It was highly unusual to have so many sudden collapses and deaths on her unit. It wasn't something she should feel is normal.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Sorry colour purple - this formatting will not clear and I wasn’t quoting you !

She was interviewed for 9 working days in total before she was finally charged. I can see why they are not going to play the interview tapes to the jury but as I am very curious as of her demeanour I for one would like to see a snippet. I think after the trial we will see bits for sure. Also if she doesn’t go in the witness box the jury will have sat there for 8+ months without hearing her speak a word.
I find that utterly insane.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Sorry colour purple - this formatting will not clear and I wasn’t quoting you !

She was interviewed for 9 working days in total before she was finally charged. I can see why they are not going to play the interview tapes to the jury but as I am very curious as of her demeanour I for one would like to see a snippet. I think after the trial we will see bits for sure. Also if she doesn’t go in the witness box the jury will have sat there for 8+ months without hearing her speak a word.
I find that utterly insane.

What’s your thinking then? I thought it would be a legal issue preventing them showing the tapes.

 

[bobbymkii]

Sorry colour purple - this formatting will not clear and I wasn’t quoting you !

She was interviewed for 9 working days in total before she was finally charged. I can see why they are not going to play the interview tapes to the jury but as I am very curious as of her demeanour I for one would like to see a snippet. I think after the trial we will see bits for sure. Also if she doesn’t go in the witness box the jury will have sat there for 8+ months without hearing her speak a word.
I find that utterly insane.

I can't remember if they were present during her arraignment, but if they were they would have heard her say the words "not guilty" 22 times

 

[katydid23]

Well, yes, so would I, were I being interviewed on suspicion of murder, quite frankly!

In what world would anyone put anyone or anything "first" above themselves if they were innocent?

But these same statements were made by her way before she was being interviewed by the police. These are the same things she said at the time she was asked to take a break for self care.

She put herself first way before the police became involved.

 

[Parker Knoll]

They have already had hearings without the jury present as to what portions of the police interviews would be included, that from recollection took a couple of court days.
Even though I am partial to “ 24hrs in police custody” ( it’s a uk tv programme I hasten to add ! ) the interviews are rarely shown in court in my experience. When BM and NJ spent those couple of days sifting through the police interviews it will of been edited further at that stage by agreement between the prosecution and defence, for example to remove inadmissible or prejudicial material which should not be seen by the court.

 

[bobbymkii]

Another issue if she does take the stand.
In England & Wales usually when defendants take the stand they're the first witness that the Defence calls. But this is not a "usual" trial by any means so do you think the defence might be allowed to call other witnesses to lay some foundation to their case before Lucy takes the stand?

 

[Parker Knoll]

No - she’s first up.

 

[bobbymkii]

They have already had hearings without the jury present as to what portions of the police interviews would be included, that from recollection took a couple of court days.
Even though I am partial to “ 24hrs in police custody” ( it’s a uk tv programme I hasten to add ! ) the interviews are rarely shown in court in my experience. When BM and NJ spent those couple of days sifting through the police interviews it will of been edited further at that stage by agreement between the prosecution and defence, for example to remove inadmissible or prejudicial material which should not be seen by the court.

24 hours in police custody is the greatest television programme ever created.

My favourite episode is the one where the surgeon faked a burglary at his posh house to try and fraudulently claim £150,000 insurance money!

 

[bobbymkii]

They have already had hearings without the jury present as to what portions of the police interviews would be included, that from recollection took a couple of court days.
Even though I am partial to “ 24hrs in police custody” ( it’s a uk tv programme I hasten to add ! ) the interviews are rarely shown in court in my experience. When BM and NJ spent those couple of days sifting through the police interviews it will of been edited further at that stage by agreement between the prosecution and defence, for example to remove inadmissible or prejudicial material which should not be seen by the court.

the Mahek Bukhari retrial starts on Monday.
During the original trial (which was scrapped due to "jury irregularities") they showed a LOT of defendant police interviews to the jury. and they probably will again.

 

[katydid23]

Indeed. If you don't know then you don't know and you have to be honest about that. You don't just randomly throw speculative answers out there.

Apparently it didn't stop her before:

Letby also discussed the twins’ care with a colleague, according to the BBC. Her colleague told her there was “something odd about that night and the other three that went so suddenly”, to which Letby asked “what do you mean? Odd that we lost three and in different circumstances?”

She later told the same colleague that Child C “was tiny, obviously compromised in utero. [Child D] septic. It's [Child A] I can't get my head round.”

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

After Child H's second collapse on 27 September, Ms Letby exchanged messages with a former nursing colleague.
Ms Letby said: "It's all just so rubbish lately and always seems to happen at night when less people.
"Everyone is pretty burnt out and unit been awful."
Text messages sent by Ms Letby in the days after Child G's collapse to a colleague noted how busy the unit was.
She said: "It's completely unsafe", followed by a frowning emoji.

Lucy Letby: Parents saw baby resuscitated twice, murder trial told

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder the premature baby girl on two occasions.

www.bbc.com

There are others where she listed explanations like infections, etc...I have to track therm down again

 

[esther43]

This doesn't sound like a person who was convinced it was all down to luck.

 

[Dotta]

This doesn't sound like a person who was convinced it was all down to luck.

If guilty

The texts about causes of collapses seemed to be deflecting tactics.

That is why she was (allegedly) cautious about mentioning them during Police questioning.

JMO

 

[marynnu]

Apparently it didn't stop her before:

Letby also discussed the twins’ care with a colleague, according to the BBC. Her colleague told her there was “something odd about that night and the other three that went so suddenly”, to which Letby asked “what do you mean? Odd that we lost three and in different circumstances?”

She later told the same colleague that Child C “was tiny, obviously compromised in utero. [Child D] septic. It's [Child A] I can't get my head round.”

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

After Child H's second collapse on 27 September, Ms Letby exchanged messages with a former nursing colleague.
Ms Letby said: "It's all just so rubbish lately and always seems to happen at night when less people.
"Everyone is pretty burnt out and unit been awful."
Text messages sent by Ms Letby in the days after Child G's collapse to a colleague noted how busy the unit was.
She said: "It's completely unsafe", followed by a frowning emoji.

Lucy Letby: Parents saw baby resuscitated twice, murder trial told

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder the premature baby girl on two occasions.

www.bbc.com

There are others where she listed explanations like infections, etc...I have to track therm down again

But that's casual chat with a colleague just after the events. By the time she was arrested the deaths had been extensively reviewed and nobody had an answer. Why would you think you could come up with one?