UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[ColourPurple]

I have thought for a long time that if she is guilty the motivation was a death fixation. The evidence points to it if guilty. Morbid curiosity gone wrong. Thought that since the “fate” quote.

I agree it's a possibility , if guilty. But if it is a death fixation how could it be morbid curiosity gone wrong? It would mean she deliberately tried to kill them as her fixation was with death.

 

[Sundial]

Some really interesting answers, IMO.

All IMO -

Asked about the baby receiving an injection of air: 'It would be very hard to push air through a long line. It's a hard pressure to push through'.

Bearing in mind she's responding to questioning about a deliberate injection/act, 'push' is not out of place as it might be if that wasn't in the question, such as 'how did the baby end up with an air embolism', BUT "it would be", "it's" and "through" do show she has experience of this, particularly "it's". The word "through" shows completion, it's very specific to the delivery into the body, and a person who hasn't done this (IMO) would not necessarily think of the point of delivery as opposed to injecting air into the fluid and it filtering down with the fluid at its own pace. She also knows about alarms on these machines which detect air and stop the administration, but she hasn't raised this to say it wouldn't be possible, showing she does know how to bypass the safety mechanism by using the port.


'I didn't deliberately give him any air'.'
No. I didn't do anything deliberate to (Baby) B to harm her'.

These are not denials of giving them air, they are only a denials of deliberate acts. So why hasn't she denied giving them air? She's opening the door to accidental administration as a defence, but why, when she knows the safety features of the equipment, she knows the training, and she's already revealed she knows it takes a deliberate bypass or a hard push through the line? Her answers by way of an accident defence that isn't possible show deception and clear attempts to manipulate the police, IMO.


Asked about the Facebook searches she carried out on [baby D's] her family, she said: 'I don't know what I was looking for, but I would not be looking for photos of dead babies'.

Whoops! she's revealed what she was looking for!!! IMO.

Letby admits she was 'frustrated' before death of baby she 'murdered'

Re the fb searches for baby D and her comment, where was that reported, I must have missed that.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Why would you do anything other then answer the question in the simplest terms if you're being interviewed on suspicion of a major crime?

I have read/heard experts say that just answering “no” is a sign of innocence . If you just say ‘no’ to a question of whether you killed someone, that is less suspicious. If you feel the need to expand on that, it often indicates guilt.

So LL might be innocent or might have heard/ read the same thing as me and have structured her answers accordingly.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

On your last point. I don't think that that follows at all. Again, we don't know if this scenario was put to her or it was implied that that was what she was looking for. To be honest, it seems to be a strange response to begin with as why would anyone think there would be photos of dead babies on FB? It gives the impression that she'd been primed by circumstances to say that.

I think it follows perfectly, if you caught someone going into your bedroom and questioned it, and they said 'I wasn't going to look in your underwear drawer' when you never suggested they were, you'd be pretty sure that is exactly what they were doing.

I've seen them on FB too, not graphic pictures obviously, but sometimes the only photos the parents have of their baby are them sadly after they've passed. Not something I would personally post online but many people do so, especially if they've had their pregnancy visible on social media, it stops the messages of 'how's baby?' or 'have you had the baby yet?' being asked so everyone, including distant family and friends are aware.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I agree it's a possibility , if guilty. But if it is a death fixation how could it be morbid curiosity gone wrong? It would mean she deliberately tried to kill them as her fixation was with death.

Morbid curiosity being a normal trait albeit taboo. It’s gone wrong when it crosses the line between curiosity and desire. For instance many people have morbid curiosity but few if any normal people will actually desire to witness an actual death.

 

[ColourPurple]

Morbid curiosity being a normal trait albeit taboo. It’s gone wrong when it crosses the line between curiosity and desire. For instance many people have morbid curiosity but few if any normal people will actually desire to witness an actual death.

Surely it crosses the line when desire or curiosity turn into action

 

[Tortoise]

Mother - Hey Johnny what are you looking in the fridge for?

Johnny - I don't know mum, but I wasn't looking for the coca cola

Come on!!

 

[marynnu]

Please don't be annoyed if you all know this already! Just wanted to clarify in case anybody doesn't. Re. the discussion about injection, long lines, pressure. A long line is a fine narrow tube which goes into the baby via a superficial vein and ends up in a larger deeper vein. It's nothing to do with the tubing which leads from the bag of fluid to the baby.
I'll shut up now!

 

[Tortoise]

Re the fb searches for baby D and her comment, where was that reported, I must have missed that.

Letby admits she was 'frustrated' before death of baby she 'murdered'

Letby, 33, claimed that neither she nor other staff had questioned what had caused the 'spike' of three deaths and one near-death on the neonatal unit in the single month of June eight years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Dcflag]

I’d be interested to know… does (or did) baby D’s family have photos of their deceased baby on their Facebook?

 

[pandaknows]

Yes, these are her words 'It would be very hard to push air through a long line. It's a hard pressure to push through'.

If guilty, then LL made a clear statement that points to her doing it on purpose, deliberately, something her attorney, likely present in the room, and BM, would have fought hard to have this sentence redacted from any transcript or video. The post-it notes and texts are deliberately masking the sharp mind that operates under extreme pressure and stress. Unflappable. If guilty, the motive is somewhere in those words Tortoise quoted "It would be very hard to push air through a long line. It's a hard pressure to push through." LL herself would have been under extreme pressure to confess when she stated this. And yet, she couldn't help herself. It would be hard to do but, if guilty, she did figure it out herself and she would be smarter than the doctors, who couldn't. Had to point it out. How smart she was.

 

[ColourPurple]

I've seen them on FB too, not graphic pictures obviously, but sometimes the only photos the parents have of their baby are them sadly after they've passed. Not something I would personally post online but many people do so, especially if they've had their pregnancy visible on social media, it stops the messages of 'how's baby?' or 'have you had the baby yet?' being asked so everyone, including distant family and friends are aware.

Actually that's made me think. If guilty, maybe that's one of the reasons why she allegedly targeted Baby K, as she was only 98 minutes old, less chance of the parents having other photos.

IMO

 

[marynnu]

If guilty, the motive is somewhere in those words Tortoise quoted "It would be very hard to push air through a long line. It's a hard pressure to push through

I don't know whatyou mean?

 

[Tortoise]

Please don't be annoyed if you all know this already! Just wanted to clarify in case anybody doesn't. Re. the discussion about injection, long lines, pressure. A long line is a fine narrow tube which goes into the baby via a superficial vein and ends up in a larger deeper vein. It's nothing to do with the tubing which leads from the bag of fluid to the baby.
I'll shut up now!

Baby A

Mr Myers: "It's important to make sure the tip of the long line is in the right position, isn't it?"
Miss Taylor: "Yes."

Miss Taylor says she is not aware of anything that might have been running through the long line prior to the 8pm 10% dextrose administration.
Mr Myers adds "the conventional practice" is for fluids to be administered immediately in the long line after it is inserted.
"Yes. Ideally we would get an x-ray first."

Miss Taylor is asked about the retrospectively written note at 9.28pm on June 8, which begins.
"Observations stable, pink, well perfused. UVC still insitu, but in wrong position, to be used if no other access available.
"Long line inserted by reg Dr Harkness, secured, x-rayed. 10% dextrose run through and connected to long line."

Letby's notes, written retrospectively at 7.56am on June 9, are shown to the court. They begin: "Glucose commenced via long line...UVC remained in situ from day shift, instructed line not to be used by registrar.

The next witness to give evidence is Dr David Harkness.

He says the UVC is preferred as a feeding method to the long line, and can be moved to a low position as a short-term measure until something better is in place.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 20

 

[marynnu]

Baby A

Mr Myers: "It's important to make sure the tip of the long line is in the right position, isn't it?"
Miss Taylor: "Yes."

Miss Taylor says she is not aware of anything that might have been running through the long line prior to the 8pm 10% dextrose administration.
Mr Myers adds "the conventional practice" is for fluids to be administered immediately in the long line after it is inserted.
"Yes. Ideally we would get an x-ray first."

Miss Taylor is asked about the retrospectively written note at 9.28pm on June 8, which begins.
"Observations stable, pink, well perfused. UVC still insitu, but in wrong position, to be used if no other access available.
"Long line inserted by reg Dr Harkness, secured, x-rayed. 10% dextrose run through and connected to long line."

Letby's notes, written retrospectively at 7.56am on June 9, are shown to the court. They begin: "Glucose commenced via long line...UVC remained in situ from day shift, instructed line not to be used by registrar.

The next witness to give evidence is Dr David Harkness.

He says the UVC is preferred as a feeding method to the long line, and can be moved to a low position as a short-term measure until something better is in place.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 20

Being dim again, but I'm not sure what you're saying?

 

[Tortoise]

Being dim again, but I'm not sure what you're saying?

They're saying fluid was run through the long line. LL said it would be hard to push air through the long line.

 

[Sundial]

Letby admits she was 'frustrated' before death of baby she 'murdered'

Letby, 33, claimed that neither she nor other staff had questioned what had caused the 'spike' of three deaths and one near-death on the neonatal unit in the single month of June eight years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Oh right thank you, I totally missed this.
What a very odd (laughable) thing to say re “wasn’t looking for photos of dead babies”

In addition, why in earth would the TPN bag be kept in the sluice after the insulin case of baby E?!!
Sluices are at best dirty (unhygienic) places used for emptying and washing commode pots, sick bowls, urine analysis and bodily fluids in general etc. WHY, if there was concern about a piece of medication thought to be tampered with or whatever, would you keep it in the sluice?
I understand there might be limited places to keep the TPN bag (if that “was” where it was or if it just got binned it in the sluice bins), but seriously, with the risk of further contamination in that designated area of all places, it’s a bit pointless testing it once it’s been in there. People won’t go rummaging through sluice bins to fish stuff out either (usually), most of them are emptied on a practically daily basis.
Moo

 

[Sundial]

“She denied putting insulin into his system and asked the officers if the relevant TPN bag might have been retained and stored in the sluice room. They said they would investigate that.”

Letby admits she was 'frustrated' before death of baby she 'murdered'

Letby, 33, claimed that neither she nor other staff had questioned what had caused the 'spike' of three deaths and one near-death on the neonatal unit in the single month of June eight years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Sundial]

“She denied putting insulin into his system and asked the officers if the relevant TPN bag might have been retained and stored in the sluice room. They said they would investigate that.”

Letby admits she was 'frustrated' before death of baby she 'murdered'

Letby, 33, claimed that neither she nor other staff had questioned what had caused the 'spike' of three deaths and one near-death on the neonatal unit in the single month of June eight years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Following on from baby D onto baby E in the article is also interesting (right at the bottom of the article), her comments about baby E and how that “helped her to spend time with him etc” afterwards..
I sort of get it (if innocent) but, her explanation’s to the police even with baby E are very strange too.
If you’ve have deaths from A-E, always her shifts, how is any of it helping you emotionally? I just see how it helps “me” again. Very unusual uncomfortable behaviour IMO

 

[marynnu]

They're saying fluid was run through the long line. LL said it would be hard to push air through the long line.

Yes, I see. By 'run through the long line' they mean that this was the route used once the fluid reached the baby. The tubing from the bag is commonly called a giving set. This is run through with fluid then connected to whatever access you're using - IV cannulla, UVC, long line. This is all done using a pump to apply pressure - if you just used gravity nothing would go into a long line, it's just too narrow & too long. If it needs flushing 'manually' a lot of pressure can be needed - though I wouldn't say it was impossible to inject air as LL says, I mean who knows!