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UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17
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ADMIN NOTE:
This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.
Although WS is based in the USA, we do try to manage the various discussions according to laws of other countries.
As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:
Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits
Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:
Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.
Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981
This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.
Although WS is based in the USA, we do try to manage the various discussions according to laws of other countries.
As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:
Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits
Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:
Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.
Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981
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Hey everyone,
This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.
As we don't have the staff to sit in this thread 24/7 to read posts in real time, please use the Report feature to alert Moderators to any post that you feel is sub judice and it will be reviewed and removed if necessary.
Also, this thread is to discuss the trial, not statistics or other cases.
Thank you.
This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.
As we don't have the staff to sit in this thread 24/7 to read posts in real time, please use the Report feature to alert Moderators to any post that you feel is sub judice and it will be reviewed and removed if necessary.
Also, this thread is to discuss the trial, not statistics or other cases.
Thank you.
I'm so disappointed they're not getting to see clips of the actual interviews. I wonder if the defence argued it was prejudicial to her case in some way, because I think that's what they originally said they would do.
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Why not play the full interviews or atleast the most critical parts of them?
Demeanour is everything, you can’t tell much from a transcript, her body language, emphasis on certain words, whether she sounds upset or upbeat or emotionally blunted. I understand it’s been a long trial and the interviews are probably very long but without seeing or atleast hearing her speak about these events, how can the jury get a full picture of who LL is?
I’m thinking an attachment disorder could tick a lot of boxes with LL and could provide some explanation to the 257 handover sheets aswell as her emotional response to doc choc when he gave evidence, her many many texts about the babies and work, her not wanting to take any time off after the deaths of babies in her care, the Facebook searches, her relationship with her parents and how she describes them as ‘suffocating’. It could also explain a motive if guilty. Becoming so attached to the babies that she didn’t want them to leave the unit and lose contact with them.
All MOO and if guilty.
Demeanour is everything, you can’t tell much from a transcript, her body language, emphasis on certain words, whether she sounds upset or upbeat or emotionally blunted. I understand it’s been a long trial and the interviews are probably very long but without seeing or atleast hearing her speak about these events, how can the jury get a full picture of who LL is?
I’m thinking an attachment disorder could tick a lot of boxes with LL and could provide some explanation to the 257 handover sheets aswell as her emotional response to doc choc when he gave evidence, her many many texts about the babies and work, her not wanting to take any time off after the deaths of babies in her care, the Facebook searches, her relationship with her parents and how she describes them as ‘suffocating’. It could also explain a motive if guilty. Becoming so attached to the babies that she didn’t want them to leave the unit and lose contact with them.
All MOO and if guilty.
Yes, they did say they would be played, this is the report from 23rd March
2:33pm
Work is ongoing between the prosecution and defence to have an agreed version and length of Lucy Letby's interviews with police to be shown to the jury, the court hears.
Those will be played, it is intended, before the Easter break, which begins on Good Friday (April 7) and the jury will return on April 17 at noon.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, March 23
2:33pm
Work is ongoing between the prosecution and defence to have an agreed version and length of Lucy Letby's interviews with police to be shown to the jury, the court hears.
Those will be played, it is intended, before the Easter break, which begins on Good Friday (April 7) and the jury will return on April 17 at noon.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, March 23
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Strange. Maybe they decided there was just so much footage it would be better to summarise.
4:01pm
Letby says there was 'no reason' why Child A's perfusion was very poor.
Letby said it was 'awful' that Child A had passed away, and twin Child B was present when this was 'all happening'.
'I think just all of us, as a team, dealed with it', and a formal debrief was held a few days later. Letby says there was nothing in particular from the outcome, although one possibility was health issues the mother had.
Letby said she had seen babies pass away before, from her time working in Liverpool Women's Hospital involving very pre-term babies, but Child A's death was 'unexpected'.
4:04pm
Letby says she believed Melanie Taylor would have connected the TPN bag, as she was sterile (and in a position to attach the bag). She tells police there may have been uncertainty over what the bag of fluid contained.
She says she and Melanie Taylor would have checked the TPN bag together prior to administration.
Letby says there was 'no reason' why Child A's perfusion was very poor.
Letby said it was 'awful' that Child A had passed away, and twin Child B was present when this was 'all happening'.
'I think just all of us, as a team, dealed with it', and a formal debrief was held a few days later. Letby says there was nothing in particular from the outcome, although one possibility was health issues the mother had.
Letby said she had seen babies pass away before, from her time working in Liverpool Women's Hospital involving very pre-term babies, but Child A's death was 'unexpected'.
4:04pm
Letby says she believed Melanie Taylor would have connected the TPN bag, as she was sterile (and in a position to attach the bag). She tells police there may have been uncertainty over what the bag of fluid contained.
She says she and Melanie Taylor would have checked the TPN bag together prior to administration.
Hmm, I think the importance of them seeing her reactions outweighs convenience. They could have chopped it right back, because they've already been given the agreed written summaries. I think it must be prejudicial to her in some way, if I was on the jury I might be thinking there's something odd that's being hidden.
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To go through the whole trial not hearing her speak, other than to confirm her name and her not guilty plea must be very strange.
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Sorry to bang on about attachment but also aswell as the other things I listed before…
she doesn’t appear to have had a successful long term relationship (could have failed due to her issues with attachment and possibly abandonment), her wanting to get back in room 1 straight away, getting involved with babies she wasn’t designated to care for, wanting to be involved in the grieving process with the parents, sending the card, her strange note writing could be from feeling conflicted, if guilty, devestated that she has taken a life while also feeling relief that atleast she won’t have to go through life not knowing what happened to the babies.
Having so many handover sheets is just strange and points to an obsession with her work and patients, rather than being trophies they may be memories and a way of holding onto something that connects her with her patients. Proof that she was part of their lives. Attachment disorder right now seems to tick so many boxes and might explain some of the things that appear to be without explanation. LL comes across as very very work oriented, and from what we’ve heard didn’t have much of a life outside the neonatal unit.
The note we’ve heard today that says something like ‘no one will never know what happened and why’
Could that be her way of saying that she didn’t harm the babies (if guilty) because she hated them, or because she wanted to inflict pain, but because she wanted to relieve her own internal pain from watching babies come and go over the years, having to say goodbye to families never to see them again. Feeling as though she was a much bigger part of their lives than she actually was.
All MOO
she doesn’t appear to have had a successful long term relationship (could have failed due to her issues with attachment and possibly abandonment), her wanting to get back in room 1 straight away, getting involved with babies she wasn’t designated to care for, wanting to be involved in the grieving process with the parents, sending the card, her strange note writing could be from feeling conflicted, if guilty, devestated that she has taken a life while also feeling relief that atleast she won’t have to go through life not knowing what happened to the babies.
Having so many handover sheets is just strange and points to an obsession with her work and patients, rather than being trophies they may be memories and a way of holding onto something that connects her with her patients. Proof that she was part of their lives. Attachment disorder right now seems to tick so many boxes and might explain some of the things that appear to be without explanation. LL comes across as very very work oriented, and from what we’ve heard didn’t have much of a life outside the neonatal unit.
The note we’ve heard today that says something like ‘no one will never know what happened and why’
Could that be her way of saying that she didn’t harm the babies (if guilty) because she hated them, or because she wanted to inflict pain, but because she wanted to relieve her own internal pain from watching babies come and go over the years, having to say goodbye to families never to see them again. Feeling as though she was a much bigger part of their lives than she actually was.
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Indeed!
Some interesting ideas, but it's not feeling quite right for me, with the unnecessary and sadistic levels of pain and suffering inflicted on the babies, if she's guilty. Especially rupturing the liver, jabbing down throats, babies not being able to breathe, etc, as alleged, if guilty.
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That phrase, along with some of the other stuff sounding to be in the past tense, makes it sounds very like the ramblings of someone contemplating suicide.
All MOO, obvs.
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The "I am evil" note featured the line "kill myself right now" too.
ETA the "I loved you but it wasn't enough" note was found at work, which I find really strange, unless she was hoping to give it to the doc...
WaxLyrical
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Not to mention betting on the grand national and organising a housewarming party while allegedly simultaneously trying to murder two babies.
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