UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[esther43]

They were already read agreed summaries of her police interviews at the end of each baby's evidence. I really don't see the point in repeating evidence they've already heard.

Just a passing observation. LL mentions re. searching for the parents of babies A & B was probably "To see how maybe the family was doing … because we think about the babies on the unit all the time and we talk about them and what they are doing.” The culture must have been very different to where I worked, we just talked about families, holidays and when we could retire!!

I also think it's weird the language she uses throughout. She very much talks like she is still very much one of the existing team..

 

[Marantz4250b]

No probs.

Re the interviews, I'm wondering was her lawyer present? I'd be surprised, considering the charges, if she didn't have legal representation there. In which case, they'd (BM and LL) have had time together in advance of the interviews as to how best to approach the questions she was going to be asked. The summaries (to date, and I know they're very brief and not terribly helpful) suggest that she did have representation present as she comes across imo as pretty focused, direct and aware of the pitfalls. Just my impression, of course.

And as @Marie Bell very wisely said above, we have no idea what we're not hearing from the interviews.

BM would not have been there. He is a KC (barrister) who is appointed by her solicitor to represent her in court. Her solicitor, or a duty solicitor, would have been with her at interview.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It would have been a solicitor, not her barrister, if she requested one.

Beat me to it.

 

[notsure]

I have to say that I find those answers perfectly reasonable.

This is the thing - it could fit either the guilty or innocent scenario.

 

[Sundial]

Be interesting to hear if Liverpool womens will clarify her role etc from her time there/any input.
JMO

 

[esther43]

I have to say that I find those answers perfectly reasonable.

I'm on the fence with this one. I have definitely seen parents who have returned to volunteer in the nnu behave in this way and actually ask to go back to the cot space where they were cared for so they could 'move past' the experience.
But that I think is acceptable for a former parent. I think as a nurse, you would be expected to be professional enough to move past it. I have to say, I never experienced anyone feeling that 'attached' to someone else's baby that they would have this same reaction, like it were their own.

 

[ColourPurple]

She told officers: “It’s very difficult, when you see dead babies it’s hard to get that image out of your head.”

The detective asked: “Why would going into nursery one help?”

Letby replied: “Because I would see a different baby in there, and see a different scenario to the scenario I had at the time when he died.”

The detective said: “How would it be a different scenario?”

Letby said: “It’s a different baby, it’s different staff, it’s a different night.

“Because I think when you are going to the same incubator space and there is a different baby there you know you let the one you lost go. Until you go into that space, you see that baby until another baby goes in there.”

[...]

The detective said: “You went on to attack (Child C)?”

Letby said: “No I haven’t. No.”

The detective said: “Lucy, did you murder (Child C)?”

“No,” the defendant said.

The detective asked: “Can you give any explanation as to how (Child C) died?”

Letby replied: “No.”

Lucy Letby ‘upset and frustrated’ minutes before baby collapsed

NURSE Lucy Letby agreed she was “upset and frustrated” six minutes before the collapse of a baby boy she allegedly murdered, her trial has heard.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Begs the question, exactly how many babies did she see die at Liverpool in the time she was there.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Be interesting to hear if Liverpool womens will clarify her role etc from her time there/any input.
JMO

I reckon that the issue of her been given another dying baby to look after will definitely have been checked by the police. If it's not true they'll definitely point it out.

 

[notsure]

Begs the question, exactly how many babies did she see die at Liverpool in the time she was there.

She needed to go back into that room to see another baby in the place of the previous one that died. Then this other one died. That must have been even more devastating for her. But she keeps going back for more. There's something not right here.

Edit: sorry, you were referring to Liverpool, not the Countess of Chester Hospital.

 

[ColourPurple]

I find it hard to believe really, that she would have been far more junior, not long qualified really, and to be given another dying baby right after losing one.

Yet she also said they got more emotional support after a death at Liverpool. Giving her another dying baby straight after a death, doesn't sound particularly supportive. It's a shame we don't have the transcript because "giving her another dying baby" is an interesting choice of words too.

 

[Sundial]

She needed to go back into that room to see another baby in the place of the previous one that died. Then this other one died. That must have been even more devastating for her. But she keeps going back for more. There's something not right here.

That sounds similar to the women’s hosp, in a way if you think about it then?

To go back to where the baby was, then this happened with C.. is similar to what she’s supposedly said happened at the women’s.
I think, if im reading right?
Moo

 

[Sundial]

Yet she also said they got more emotional support after a death at Liverpool. Giving her another dying baby straight after a death, doesn't sound particularly supportive. It's a shame we don't have the transcript because "giving her another dying baby" is an interesting choice of words too.

Very true; at most I would suggest they are “poorly” babies regardless of potential possible outcome.
JMO

 

[notsure]

That sounds similar to the women’s hosp, in a way if you think about it then?

To go back to where the baby was, then this happened with C.. is similar to what she’s supposedly said happened at the women’s.
I think, if im reading right?
Moo

Sorry, I replied to the wrong post, I think. I was referring to what happened at the Countess of Chester. I don't know what happened at Liverpool.

 

[Dotta]

If guilty

IMO she might have longed for/sought the same attention/fuss she received in Liverpool when the patient died.

But then she was in training/junior in Liverpool, so it was obvious they tried to help her there.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Very true; at most I would suggest they are “poorly” babies regardless of potential possible outcome.
JMO

And then it strays into the territory of whether the baby was known to be dying before they were "given to" LL or whether their death was unexpected. And we can't really discuss that in any detail .

 

[esther43]

Begs the question, exactly how many babies did she see die at Liverpool in the time she was there.

A lot more common in a level 3 through. Death is always around you, especially if surgical. Even if there only a short time she could have witnessed a few..

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if baby C even was in the same place in the nursery as baby A had been. Was it covered in testimony? I seem to remember one of the babies they asked the nurse and jurors were shown a photo of the room for her to point it out, but I didn't make any connection at the time.

 

[ColourPurple]

She needed to go back into that room to see another baby in the place of the previous one that died. Then this other one died. That must have been even more devastating for her. But she keeps going back for more. There's something not right here.

Edit: sorry, you were referring to Liverpool, not the Countess of Chester Hospital.

I was but you're right about what happened at Chester.

Her desperation to get back in room 1 after Baby A's death might seem less suspicious if Baby C hadn't then suffered a fatal collapse when she went into room 1, six minutes after that phone conversation ended.

IMO

 

[esther43]

Very true; at most I would suggest they are “poorly” babies regardless of potential possible outcome.
JMO

Makes you wonder if it was twins again :-/ because that's the only usual circumstance they would keep the same nurse in the picture, for continuity from the parents perspective..

 

[esther43]

I was but you're right about what happened at Chester.

Her desperation to get back in room 1 after Baby A's death might seem less suspicious if Baby C hadn't then suffered a fatal collapse when she went into room 1, six minutes after that phone conversation ended.

IMO

I get the impression that she was going through a particularly unhinged phase at this time, similar to in the later cases. It's also reflected in text messages the concern colleagues had about her MH at that time in particular.jmo