UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #18

[Dotta]

Ufff!
I have caught up with all today's revelations at last!

And...
Surprise surprise

I feel sympathy for KC Ben M.
What a tough job is awaiting him and his team!

Too bad.

JMO

 

[Sundial]

You know what I think it’s relative. If she doesn’t see the harm in it and doesn’t associate it with the deaths and collapses it’s a thong of non significance to her. Why worry about something that she doesn’t consider important. Could explain why she didn’t dispose of them. I think if she considered them important she would have just gotten rid of rather than stuffing to the back of the cupboard. Its very strange though, so so many.

If she doesn’t consider it as important, then she can’t be competent. It’s her job to know how important patient confidentiality is.
As heard today she was highly competent and trained, she is not stupid and she couldn’t explain it. Why; because she knew it was wrong.
Moo

 

[katydid23]

I agree that word is unusual. I kind of thought the error I made or didn’t make lol was human error not evil but I felt that way for sure.

And even though you felt awful and felt guilty that he was hurt, I doubt you ever thought " I did this on purpose, I am evil'

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes.
I misunderstood somebody else's post

I checked it once again, and indeed it was her note that that was found in the bin bag (which was full by the way).

Oh well, I read all these posts in a hurry.

Not a problem. This case is honestly mind bending. Following it and catching up a few hours a day on dozens of posts in personally find very difficult!

I do get the impression that we are not out of the weirdness quite yet, though. More yet to come, I feel!

 

[Nali87]

If she is such a stickler for moral thinking, why take them home 257 days in a row? One you do it a dozen times, don't you think maybe I should be more mindful tomorrow and hand in my handover sheet? How does she accidentally do it every single work day?

I have to believe she took them home on purpose, for some unknown reason.

Maybe this was already brought up.. but how come nobody missed these handover sheets?

 

[katydid23]

You know what I think it’s relative. If she doesn’t see the harm in it and doesn’t associate it with the deaths and collapses it’s a thong of non significance to her. Why worry about something that she doesn’t consider important. Could explain why she didn’t dispose of them. I think if she considered them important she would have just gotten rid of rather than stuffing to the back of the cupboard. Its very strange though, so so many.

How could she be a competent, skilled nurse and not see the harm in taking home all of these other people's private/confidential medical information? How could she not consider it important? I am sure it has been taught to her and emphasised many many times about strict protocols over confidential medical data.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe this was already brought up.. but how come nobody missed these handover sheets?

I have had these same thoughts. But since they are reportedly destroyed in bulk, maybe they were assumed to be turned in.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I understand. But those babies did not run headfirst into the alleged insulin tainted bags or the air in their lines. Someone actually had to allegedly do those things on purpose. JMO

Remember that the med experts have not stated with absolute certainty that these babies suffered an AE. That’s one aspect of this case I consider extremely important.

 

[Dotta]

Maybe this was already brought up.. but how come nobody missed these handover sheets?

They were supposed to be destroyed after shift, so not missed

Or do they check the waste bins to make sure nothing is taken out of hospital?

I have not the slightest idea

JMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

Remember that the med experts have not stated with absolute certainty that these babies suffered an AE. That’s one aspect of this case I consider extremely important.

It’s been stated with as much certainty as they’re able to provide though. And there are no alternative explanations that we’re aware of.

 

[katydid23]

Remember that the med experts have not stated with absolute certainty that these babies suffered an AE. That’s one aspect of this case I consider extremely important.

I think they have stated it is a very high probability in many of the cases. Very few situations can be said with absolute certainty. But the patterns shown, make it a very certain diagnosis because of the many similarities in symptoms and sudden unexplained onsets.

 

[Sundial]

Remember that the med experts have not stated with absolute certainty that these babies suffered an AE. That’s one aspect of this case I consider extremely important.

On the other hand all the compelling additional evidence given by the prosecution to support the charges appears to outweigh the absolute certainty of deliberate AE caused.

I feel this is even more important than the one or two maybes of this whole case.
IMO if guilty etc

 

[Sundial]

They were supposed to be destroyed after shift, so not missed

Or do they check the waste bins to make sure nothing is taken out of hospital?

I have not the slightest idea

JMO

You are correct, they are “supposed” to be put in confidential waste at the end of shift before leaving the ward/unit.

This is a confidential waste bin specifically for that reason. In most places they are taken to incinerators and are burnt.

That said, there are occasions where they accidentally get taken home. If this ever happens you are advised to either destroy it completely or return to the hospital at the first opportunity.

It’s interesting how she claims of the notes found at her house; no-one else had seen them (so she clearly knows they are not to be shared with anyone else) so she would also know she should have destroyed them. Instead keeps them from what looks like almost every shift and has her own little (large even given the 250 odd that were found) personal portfolio of patients details stashed in her house.
JMO

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Actually speaking of the handover sheets, I’ve just thought then, why were any of them at her parents house? Didn’t they not live very close to her as she said in her texts? Did she move straight from the hospital accommodation into her own home, or was she living with them at any point whilst this was going on do we know? Just a bit confused on this part.

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[Tortoise]

Remember that the med experts have not stated with absolute certainty that these babies suffered an AE. That’s one aspect of this case I consider extremely important.

This is not correct.

The medical experts have stated with absolute certainty that the babies other than babies C and P who received air via their NGTs were killed by air embolisms.


Baby A

Dr Evans
He said he had "only one" conclusion, that Child A had received an air embolus, "through an IV line".
Dr Evans says the cause of death with Child A is an air embolism
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 25

Dr Bohin
She says the "only plausible explanation" for Child A's collapse is an air embolus.
Mr Johnson: "What, in your opinion, killed [Child A]?"
Dr Bohin: "[Child A] was killed by an air embolus."

Baby D

Dr Evans
Dr Evans says his conclusion in Child D’s case is that death was caused by an injection of air into her bloodstream.
https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

Dr Bohin
She concludes the collapses were caused by intravenous air administration either through the UVC or the cannula.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, November 11

Baby E

Dr Evans
Dr Evans tells the court he believes that baby E died as a result of an injection of air, with the massive bleed caused by trauma as a contributory factor.

Dr Bohin
Dr Bohin says baby E died as a result of an injection of air, and that his catastrophic bleed was not the cause of his collapse.
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz

Baby I

Dr Evans
Asked by prosecutor Nick Johnson KC as to what his conclusion was for the cause of the fatal collapse, Dr Evans replied: “I think she was the victim of air being injected into her blood circulation.
Lucy Letby trial: Baby 'killed by injection of air into bloodstream'

Dr Bohin
For the fourth collapse, in which Child I ultimately died, Dr Bohin says the cause of the collapse was an air embolus, via air administered via an IV line.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, February 10

Baby O

Dr Evans
Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans told the court Child O's death was a result of an intravenous air injection and trauma to his liver, which caused an internal bleed.
Lucy Letby: Baby triplet died after trauma to liver, jury told

Dr Bohin
She told the court she concluded that injections of air “with no innocent cause” were responsible for Child O’s “unexpected” deterioration.
Baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby was injected with air, court told

 

[esther43]

Quite a lot more detail on interview transcripts in this article

Accused nurse wrote note because ‘everything got on top of me’, court told

Lucy Letby denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder another 10 at the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neo-natal unit.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

This is not correct.

The medical experts have stated with absolute certainty that the babies other than babies C and P who received air via their NGTs were killed by air embolisms.


Baby A

Dr Evans
He said he had "only one" conclusion, that Child A had received an air embolus, "through an IV line".
Dr Evans says the cause of death with Child A is an air embolism
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 25

Dr Bohin
She says the "only plausible explanation" for Child A's collapse is an air embolus.
Mr Johnson: "What, in your opinion, killed [Child A]?"
Dr Bohin: "[Child A] was killed by an air embolus."

Baby D

Dr Evans
Dr Evans says his conclusion in Child D’s case is that death was caused by an injection of air into her bloodstream.
https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

Dr Bohin
She concludes the collapses were caused by intravenous air administration either through the UVC or the cannula.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, November 11

Baby E

Dr Evans
Dr Evans tells the court he believes that baby E died as a result of an injection of air, with the massive bleed caused by trauma as a contributory factor.

Dr Bohin
Dr Bohin says baby E died as a result of an injection of air, and that his catastrophic bleed was not the cause of his collapse.
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz

Baby I

Dr Evans
Asked by prosecutor Nick Johnson KC as to what his conclusion was for the cause of the fatal collapse, Dr Evans replied: “I think she was the victim of air being injected into her blood circulation.
Lucy Letby trial: Baby 'killed by injection of air into bloodstream'

Dr Bohin
For the fourth collapse, in which Child I ultimately died, Dr Bohin says the cause of the collapse was an air embolus, via air administered via an IV line.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, February 10

Baby O

Dr Evans
Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans told the court Child O's death was a result of an intravenous air injection and trauma to his liver, which caused an internal bleed.
Lucy Letby: Baby triplet died after trauma to liver, jury told

Dr Bohin
She told the court she concluded that injections of air “with no innocent cause” were responsible for Child O’s “unexpected” deterioration.
Baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby was injected with air, court told

interesting. im not sure I read that as 100% certainty that AE is the cod. Mr Myers questioning made him change his wording didn’t it? Even dr marnerides never said it with absolute certainty.

 

[JosieJo]

Actually speaking of the handover sheets, I’ve just thought then, why were any of them at her parents house? Didn’t they not live very close to her as she said in her texts? Did she move straight from the hospital accommodation into her own home, or was she living with them at any point whilst this was going on do we know? Just a bit confused on this part.

5 handover sheets were found in the shredder box at her parents house none of which were babies in the case ...so presumably at some point she moved the box to her parents with "keep" on ...I suppose that could have been any time she visited

 

[Marantz4250b]

I have had these same thoughts. But since they are reportedly destroyed in bulk, maybe they were assumed to be turned in.

Yes, they're just single use information sheets. There's no reason to count them back in.