UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #18

[esther43]

You don't think the defence will offer any evidence or call any witnesses? That would be insane! I'm sure they will call some experts. They could call the original pathologists who did the autopsies, or perhaps experts on conditions that the defence argues the baby's had like NEC etc. There might be character witnesses they could call.

I am imagining the defence to be quite short. Suspect it may involve recalling some witnesses to clarify certain things. Think it will be scattered with the defence collating and covering many different babies in each day and then on to the closing speeches.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Slightly worrying imo. I might take a stab in the dark and say the prosecution offered those notes as evidence of a disturbance of mind. Bolstering those occasions of odd behaviour. It really isn’t much to go on imo. Think that angle is a suggestion of problems preceding the events. Very scant evidence on that front. I do worry how the jury will see that evidence though.

it reads to me that the process after suspension from clinical duties has exacerbated things for her. She seemed happy enough before then after we get the notes of which suicide is a prominent feature.

it really is messed up.

I tend to agree here. Not knowing anything really about her prior to this we can only speculate, but it would seem reasonable that there was some psychological or personality type issue within her which has been exacerbated by things prior to her arrest.

I'd still really love to know when these notes were written, exactly. I'm thinking we may never find out, though.

All MOO

 

[Marantz4250b]

You don't think the defence will offer any evidence or call any witnesses? That would be insane! I'm sure they will call some experts. They could call the original pathologists who did the autopsies, or perhaps experts on conditions that the defence argues the baby's had like NEC etc. There might be character witnesses they could call.

They can only call witnesses, though, if they actually have witnesses to counter the prosecution's arguments. I can't see what calling the original coroners and suchlike will achieve as they are just going to say exactly what they said in their original reports which is what the prosecution has already provided.

I'm tending to agree that they won't be calling many witnesses of their own, if any at all. Surely their opportunity to counter the prosecution's witnesses was when they were on the stand; they can say something along the lines of "....well, Dr Bloggs, we have a witness who will say that your opinion/conclusion on X, Y or Z is incorrect because of such and such reasons.....". They haven't ever done that, though, as far as I'm aware.

Also, I can't really see what character witnesses would achieve, either. The character of the defendant is largely irrelevant either way. The jury is supposed to decide on the evidence not on whether defendant is a "thoroughly decent and solid chap" towards their mates, if you see what I mean?

 

[esther43]

I tend to agree here. Not knowing anything really about her prior to this we can only speculate, but it would seem reasonable that there was some psychological or personality type issue within her which has been exacerbated by things prior to her arrest.

I'd still really love to know when these notes were written, exactly. I'm thinking we may never find out, though.

All MOO

The notes do need explaining. The 'confession' note especially. It's in her handwriting!!
If LL doesn't take the stand and explain what she meant by 'i am evil' 'i did this' and the defence just say 'her head was a mess' as a juror I would draw inferences from that. The prosecution don't need to spell out a motive. If you found a knife with blood on it, it wouldn't be 'lesser evidence' because we can't say what the intentions were of the person who put it there? We would take it on face value that it is a sinister item.

 

[ColourPurple]

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[Marantz4250b]

The notes do need explaining. The 'confession' note especially. It's in her handwriting!!
If LL doesn't take the stand and explain what she meant by 'i am evil' 'i did this' and the defence just say 'her head was a mess' as a juror I would draw inferences from that. The prosecution don't need to spell out a motive. If you found a knife with blood on it, it wouldn't be 'lesser evidence' because we can't say what the intentions were of the person who put it there? We would take it on face value that it is a sinister item.

I tend to agree but I don't think we'll see her giving evidence. The reasons for the notes may have been addressed in the police interviews which we're in the process of hearing about in detail. It may be that her KC simply gives her reasons for writing them on her behalf.

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[DinerMite]

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So the 3rd bedroom was decked out like a nursery...hmm...

 

[marynnu]

So the 3rd bedroom was decked out like a nursery...hmm...

I would think it was like that when she moved in.

 

[DianaWW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650525211567980545

New pictures on twitter. Smudge is definitely a cat.

 

[ColourPurple]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650525211567980545

New pictures on twitter. Smudge is definitely a cat.

Ah yes, a ginger and white boy cat, and it looks like there's another card/paper behind the diary, the same as Smudge's that I assume is Tigger's.

ETA Although it could just be one big sheet

 

[esther43]

So the 3rd bedroom was decked out like a nursery...hmm...

Just wondering whether when LL said she was putting together a timeline, this was how the babies ended up in her diary?

 

[WaxLyrical]

So the diary was definitely not a journal.. the baby’s initials are basically the only things noted.

Can these really be a note of murders? You’d have to be exceedingly stupid to record it in this way. JMO, if guilty, etc.

 

[DianaWW]

You’d also have to be stupid to keep a note that you’d written ‘I killed them on purpose..’ on as well though. Even if innocent, if she knew what she was being accused of it’s bizarre she kept all this stuff. JMO.

 

[ColourPurple]

Just wondering whether when LL said she was putting together a timeline, this was how the babies ended up in her diary?

Or if the diary was used to make the timeline

 

[ColourPurple]

So the diary was definitely not a journal.. the baby’s initials are basically the only things noted.

Can these really be a note of murders? You’d have to be exceedingly stupid to record it in this way. JMO, if guilty, etc.

You’d also have to be stupid to keep a note that you’d written ‘I killed them on purpose..’ on as well though. Even if innocent, if she knew what she was being accused of it’s bizarre she kept all this stuff. JMO.

Or, just arrogant enough to think you'd never be caught, and then confident/naive enough to think that you'd be given prior notice of any police searches.

if guilty, jmo

 

[esther43]

Or if the diary was used to make the timeline

Yeah, that's what I meant, you phrased it more clearly!

 

[ColourPurple]

Yeah, that's what I meant, you phrased it more clearly!

I think I meant the oppsite to you lol. I meant that she recorded the initials in her diary at the time. Then later when she needed to make the timeline she looked back at her diary.

Not sure we've heard of her writing any other references to other babies in the diary. Just initials of the two triplets on the dates they died, and "twins, followed the next day by twin resus", for L and M. Though it's a 2016 diary so woudl only include the 2016 babies anyway, so baby K onwards.

 

[Dotta]

New pictures on twitter. Smudge is definitely a cat.

Phew!
1 thing we can be sure of concerning the notes is better than nothing

It still might be that T&S are the doc and her - like the pair of cats.

JMO

 

[esther43]

Yeah, that's what I meant, you phrased it more clearly!

I think I meant the oppsite to you lol. I meant that she recorded the initials in her diary at the time. Then later when she needed to make the timeline she looked back at her diary.

Not sure we've heard of her writing any other references to other babies in the diary. Just initials of the two triplets on the dates they died, and "twins, followed the next day by twin resus", for L and M. Though it's a 2016 diary so woudl only include the 2016 babies anyway, so baby K onwards.

Oh ha ha, sorry I missunderstood. well I guess it could be either!