UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

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  • #321
It must be so weird for the jury to hear her speaking after all this time. I wish the reporters would describe factors such as her tone of voice and body language, which are as important as the words themselves.
I'm not sure what they are allowed to report in that regard. They can only report "factual" matters. I think the danger in reporting stuff like body language or tone of voice risks getting into publishing opinion rather than fact which is not allowed.
 
  • #322
Intriguing that all the deaths occured more or less as soon as she returned from placement at Liverpool womens.

Letby obtained her 'QIS' qualification allowing her to look after intensive care babies, following a university module, which included a placement at Liverpool Women's Hospital involving hands-on clinical experience. The six-month course concluded in March/April 2015.
Oh that's interesting because the newspaper article where it said she'd recently completed her intensive care placement at Liverpool was from 2013

“I am currently undergoing extra training in order to develop and enhance my knowledge and skills within the Intensive Care area and have recently completed a placement at Liverpool Women’s Hospital.”


 
  • #323
I'm not sure what they are allowed to report in that regard. They can only report "factual" matters. I think the danger in reporting stuff like body language or tone of voice risks getting into publishing opinion rather than fact which is not allowed.
Ah yes, you're probably right. It would be fascinating, though.
 
  • #324
Checking in here from the US, I have been avidly following this case in the background, thank you to all for all your great updates.

I am really surprised that she decided to take the stand, but based on the reactions here, it is absolutely working in her favor. Her appearance and her demeanor can go a long way to undermining what I believe is strong evidence from the prosecution on the medical side. How many jurors will think "Oh that nice young lady couldn't have done this!"

I have followed many many cases here, and despite evidence to the contrary, there is always a lot of skepticism about defendants who are attractive or seemingly innocent looking being responsible. There is a human prejudice that makes many believe that killers reflect the evil that is in their hearts on the outside, unfortunately that is not true.

The question is whether they will believe her explanations during cross-examination. In the US trial of Alex Murdaugh, they saw right through his lies and fake crying on the stand.
 
  • #325
Intriguing that all the deaths occured more or less as soon as she returned from placement at Liverpool womens.

Letby obtained her 'QIS' qualification allowing her to look after intensive care babies, following a university module, which included a placement at Liverpool Women's Hospital involving hands-on clinical experience. The six-month course concluded in March/April 2015.
Important to bear in mind that we are not hearing of any deaths or close calls/major complications that Ms Letby is not accused of, assuming of course there were any - which seems highly likely. We don't know which of the members of staff were present for those instances, assuming they happened, so have no way of forming a complete picture.

All the jury can do is base their beliefs upon the evidence they are being presented.

JMO
 
  • #326
I'm not sure what they are allowed to report in that regard. They can only report "factual" matters. I think the danger in reporting stuff like body language or tone of voice risks getting into publishing opinion rather than fact which is not allowed.
Exactly.
What Notsure is suggesting is for journalists to report subjectively. This, of course, is a massive no-no.
JMO
 
  • #327
Ah yes, you're probably right. It would be fascinating, though.
It would. I'm sure that one of the articles early on said she spoke with a slight Welsh accent. Can't recall where I read that, though.

If convicted I'm sure that we'll see her police interviews within hours.
 
  • #328
11:27am

Asked about the notes, Letby says "ideally", they would be disposed of at the end of a shift in the confiential waste bin.
Letby says she would normally store the handover sheets in her pocket, and as a result would take them home.
The court has previously heard several handover notes were found at Letby's home at the time of her arrests.
Asked about the timings of the notes made, Letby says they would be as accurate as they could be made, and the prescriptions would be accurate "to the minute". The nursing notes would be approximations.


********

Another piece of testimony I struggle to accept.
I work in a hospital in a clinical setting, I will almost always have some type of documentation containing confidential on my person (written handovers, scraps of paper etc).
Two VITAL aspects that throw shade on this justification/testimony:
1. Clinical staff (certainly within my trust and other trusts I’ve worked at) should NOT arrive to/leave work in their uniform - we are required to take our uniform into work and change in designated changing spaces.
2. IF I change out of my uniform at the end of my shift and find any confidential waste in my pockets, I will discard it into the confidential waste bin BEFORE leaving work. This was taught to us during our training, with a specific emphasis on the importance to ensure patient confidentiality.

Hence why I find it very difficult to accept this testimony. Confidential waste should NEVER be accidentally leaving the hospital with staff members, for the very reasons above.

Anyone else who works in a clinical setting have similar or different experience? @marynnu?
 
  • #329
If I’m to paraphrase what I think the notes are being purported to say:

“They are saying I killed them on purpose, I didn’t so they the only way they can be thinking this is if I’m incompetent or otherwise not good enough at my job”

JMO.

That's what I thought. Also, I have always suspected this may be an explanation.

I have a huge amount of personal bias in this case as once I was accused of something that I literally didn't do whatsoever and had no part in within the framework of an institution. It's a strange situation and messes with your head.
 
  • #330
OR it could mean exactly what it literally says----"I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them".

"I killed them on purpose[ by attacking them] because I'm not good enough to care for them".[ because I am not a good enough person to care about them]

possible translation:
I purposely killed them because I don't really care about them.
With respect, that's a product of your mind.
 
  • #331
Checking in here from the US, I have been avidly following this case in the background, thank you to all for all your great updates.

I am really surprised that she decided to take the stand, but based on the reactions here, it is absolutely working in her favor. Her appearance and her demeanor can go a long way to undermining what I believe is strong evidence from the prosecution on the medical side. How many jurors will think "Oh that nice young lady couldn't have done this!"

I have followed many many cases here, and despite evidence to the contrary, there is always a lot of skepticism about defendants who are attractive or seemingly innocent looking being responsible. There is a human prejudice that makes many believe that killers reflect the evil that is in their hearts on the outside, unfortunately that is not true.

The question is whether they will believe her explanations during cross-examination. In the US trial of Alex Murdaugh, they saw right through his lies and fake crying on the stand.
I was also highly skeptical that she'd give evidence. Thinking about it, though, maybe it wasn't that surprising that she is doing. She had thirty police interviews while under arrest and from what has been reported always gave confident answers to those questions. Whther guilty or not, standing up for herself is one of her strong points - which is definitely not what I expected when this first all blew up.
 
  • #332
I don't want to appear callous but it all sounds like a "sob story".

But I don't mind - she is testifying!
Wow

I think they're trying to build a case for the harms she's suffered and the personal cost it's been to her so that she can be compensated if she's found not guilty. JMO
 
  • #333
To be honest, most people (adults) wouldn't phrase it by using the words "on purpose" at all, IMO. They might if they were highly distressed and traumatised, perhaps?
They would if they wanted to clarify that they hadn't done something accidentally.

And re LL - Writing just "I killed them " could have meant accidentally or on purpose. Adding the words "on purpose" clarifies which one it was .IMo, if guilty etc

IMO
 
  • #334
Checking in here from the US, I have been avidly following this case in the background, thank you to all for all your great updates.

I am really surprised that she decided to take the stand, but based on the reactions here, it is absolutely working in her favor. Her appearance and her demeanor can go a long way to undermining what I believe is strong evidence from the prosecution on the medical side. How many jurors will think "Oh that nice young lady couldn't have done this!"

I have followed many many cases here, and despite evidence to the contrary, there is always a lot of skepticism about defendants who are attractive or seemingly innocent looking being responsible. There is a human prejudice that makes many believe that killers reflect the evil that is in their hearts on the outside, unfortunately that is not true.

The question is whether they will believe her explanations during cross-examination. In the US trial of Alex Murdaugh, they saw right through his lies and fake crying on the stand.
Agree that so far this is working in her favour, no doubt about it.

However this is the easy part. The cross examination is going to be brutal.
 
  • #335
I think they're trying to build a case for the harms she's suffered and the personal cost it's been to her so that she can be compensated if she's found not guilty. JMO
Plus pulling on the heartstrings IMO

Oh please, just 1 photo
from the Court :)
 
  • #336
I can see how someone who's traumatised by all this might make the link from being incompetent to that essentially equating to doing something on purpose. I mean, if you know or think you're making life changing bad decisions due to some problem you aren't confronting then it's basically the same as doing something on purpose.

If you get drunk, drive home and kill someone then you didn't actually kill them on purpose but it's the same thing, to all intents and purposes.

I can see how someone's mind might go there under these circumstances, tbh.
I agree, I think that when looked at through the lens of someone going through something of a nervous breakdown (which seems a possibility given that she had lost her clinical job , which she built her whole life around, and was far away from her parents, and isolated from most of her friends/ colleagues), it is plausible for someone’s mind to go to those places.

She talks about doing her best and my impression of her is someone who thought she was good at her job. If you think you are the bees knees , you are less likely to be open to the possibility that you have done something wrong. So her pride and ego could have meant that she never entertained the possibility that she was making mistakes and, in retrospect, that could make her feel like she did something on purpose : her decision not to contemplate her own failings meant that the failings continued and so she “did it on purpose.”

My opinion only. It is obviously very difficult (if not impossible) to unwind the thought processes of someone going through a mental breakdown .
 
  • #337
Checking in here from the US, I have been avidly following this case in the background, thank you to all for all your great updates.

I am really surprised that she decided to take the stand, but based on the reactions here, it is absolutely working in her favor. Her appearance and her demeanor can go a long way to undermining what I believe is strong evidence from the prosecution on the medical side. How many jurors will think "Oh that nice young lady couldn't have done this!"
RSBM

I dont think it's working in her favour at all tbh. Plus this is only her own defence question her, so of course they'll be giving her an easy ride. We're yet to hear the prosecution question her.
 
  • #338
Ms
It would. I'm sure that one of the articles early on said she spoke with a slight Welsh accent. Can't recall where I read that, though.

If convicted I'm sure that we'll see her police interviews within hours.
Ms Letby is from a part of Hereford 45 minutes away from The Welsh border, so I would be surprised if she didnt have what might be considered a slight Welsh accent.
 
  • #339
I think they're trying to build a case for the harms she's suffered and the personal cost it's been to her so that she can be compensated if she's found not guilty. JMO
I don't think it's that. That's not what a criminal trial is for.

It's about making sure the jury know what sort of person she is. Lets face it, someone who's an out and out psychopath is far less likely to have to be treated for PTSD and need sleeping pills.

<modsnip - other cases are off topic to this one>
 
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  • #340
They would if they wanted to clarify that they hadn't done something accidentally.

And re LL - Writing just "I killed them " could have meant accidentally or on purpose. Adding the words "on purpose" clarifies which one it was .IMo, if guilty etc

IMO
It's the specific words, "on purpose" I'm getting at. Adults don't tend to say that.

Either way it's still contradictory to the other statements where she says she's done nothing wrong.
 
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