UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

[LadyEdgeworth]

Yes, a very valid question to ask.

Did she say she didn't remember searching "any parents" or just specific ones she was asked about? If the former then it's perhaps not too believably but if the later then it sounds reasonable, especially if you are making multiple hundreds of searches each month.

I don't know the answer, to be honest. All I can suggest is perhaps embarrassment given the sheer number of searches, not to mention the fact that it's probably professionally a highly dubious thing to be doing - I mean it's kinda weird to me. Then again, I'm not, and have never been, a 25 year old woman who seems to live on her phone so perhaps it's very common among that demographic? I wouldn't be at all surprised, to be honest.

It's a difficult one, I'm 25 and I live my entire life on my phone, if I lost it I'd be scuppered. However, throughout my whole degree and my masters, I never once searched any of the people I spoke to because ethics is drilled into your head. Facebook isn't very popular with people my age now, we're all on twitter/instagram really.
Again, it's not a crime to do what she's done, but to me it does paint a wider picture of someone who is willing to be unprofessional and overly involved or nosey.

MOO

 

[notsure]

I actually had a discussion some years back with a senior colleague about this; another member of staff was searching a showing other colleagues random stuff of patients etc on social media. Exactly like this.
I think people need to understand how distasteful and unprofessional this is. I have known people be held in fitness to practice meetings over things like this and it is widely frowned upon.

Nurses know this. They have been warned numerous times over the years about this very thing and she would be aware of that. It’s a huge red flag to behave this way.

All the more reason for her to be cagey about the searches in her interviews, then.

 

[Sundial]

The Facebook searches are of no signicance, imo.

They are being blown way out of proportion, they are just simple Facebook searches that most people in their mid twenties and a Facebook account might make. Literally nothing incriminating about them. JMO

That is incorrect. Nurses are advised about this all the time and it has huge consequences including fitness to practice meetings. Searching patients and adding to that harvesting dozens and dozens of confidential patient information is likely to have action taken against you, simialr to what we are hearing.
Even if innocent; THIS is exactly why healthcare professionals are told NOT to do this because of the serious implications it can have.

 

[WaxLyrical]

I think two things strike me as being at odds with her police interviews so far. One the timing of the 'not good enough' note. At the time she said she wrote it around July 2016 after being taken off clinical duties and seconded. Now she is saying she can't remember when she wrote it, but it was sometime between July 2016 to her arrest in 2018. That's key, because her her reactions of saying 'I'm an evil horrible person', or 'I will never have a family' and 'Police investigation' seem very extreme if written around July 2016.

Second the recollection of the Facebook searches. At the police interviews she had no recollection of making any and no reason for it. Now she recalls generally regularly searching for parents of babies in her care.

My understanding is the green note was written while the grievance was ongoing. This was explained in the opening speeches. Do we know when the grievance was?

Re the police interviews, after the ‘I don’t know what an air embolism is’ reported by the media which appeared wholly inaccurate, and knowing she had 30+ interviews, I’m taking the tiny portions reported with a rather large pinch of salt! Based on what she’s saying today, I think I’d need more context on the conversations she had about these searches with the police initially, before deciding she’s made up a new excuse. JMO.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

And the fact that some are done on anniversaries like a baby's death is simply coincidence I guess...

It wouldn't necessarily have to have been a coincidence.
If Ms. Letby was aware of the date and made the search, this is not indicative of her being guilty of any of the charges against her.

 

[Sundial]

All the more reason for her to be cagey about the searches in her interviews, then.

Perhaps. Although if she were to adhere to the ethical responsibilities of a nurse, if actually innocent she wouldn’t be in this mess.
JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

I think two things strike me as being at odds with her police interviews so far. One the timing of the 'not good enough' note. At the time she said she wrote it around July 2016 after being taken off clinical duties and seconded. Now she is saying she can't remember when she wrote it, but it was sometime between July 2016 to her arrest in 2018. That's key, because her her reactions of saying 'I'm an evil horrible person', or 'I will never have a family' and 'Police investigation' seem very extreme if written around July 2016.

Second the recollection of the Facebook searches. At the police interviews she had no recollection of making any and no reason for it. Now she recalls generally regularly searching for parents of babies in her care.

And she's clarified that she wrote down the words police investigation as that would be the worst case scenario. In other words no police investigation had actually been opened at the point she wrote it, so that means the note pre-dates the start of the police investigation.

 

[Sundial]

She's on trial for murder though and the prosecution have entered the searches as evidence against her as evidence to support their case of multiple murders.

I'm not expert but the huge number of searches along with all the other stuff like the notes she wrote and hoarding hand over sheets does seem to paint the picture of someone who has some significant obsessional disorder. Not that I'm an expert but I don't really see any rational explanation for it. I'm not convinced that any of that is evidence of murder, to be honest.

If so then perhaps she shouldn’t be working in this field then. You simply cannot be storing up confidential patient information like this, searching up dozens of patients, their families etc. whether she had an obsession or not, she would have known this is a huge no-no. I don’t think people seem to understand this.
Moo

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

I don't think she was specifically 'set up' or 'scapegoated' but I very much think that someone found innocent, but having been held in jail for a few years would be a victim.

A victim of what though?

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

That is incorrect. Nurses are advised about this all the time and it has huge consequences including fitness to practice meetings. Searching patients and adding to that harvesting dozens and dozens of confidential patient information is likely to have action taken against you, simialr to what we are hearing.
Even if innocent; THIS is exactly why healthcare professionals are told NOT to do this because of the serious implications it can have.

I take your point. It is unprofessional.

I wonder how many other nurses also do this though? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? None of whom are intentionally harming babies.

 

[ColourPurple]

It wouldn't necessarily have to have been a coincidence.
If Ms. Letby was aware of the date and made the search, this is not indicative of her being guilty of any of the charges against her.

And I didnt say it was! But it does suggest that it wasn't just random searching at random times IMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

It does beg the question of why she didn't say this in her original police interviews however. When questioned she said she didn't remember Facebook searching any parents, and could offer no explanation as to why she had.

Now on the stand she is saying she does remember searching for victims families in general, and did so out of 'curiosity'.

It’s not that, she didn’t remember making these individual searches as in she didn’t remember searching specifically for these individual people not that she didn’t remember fb searching generally. The fact she spent mere seconds on each search supports that.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

A victim of what though?

Would you not describe someone that has been subjected to wrongful arrest, as the victim of wrongful arrest? Just curious

 

[Jazmania]

It’s not that, she didn’t remember making these individual searches as in she didn’t remember searching specifically for these individual people not that she didn’t remember fb searching generally. The fact she spent mere seconds on each search supports that.

That isn't my understanding, I believe she answered that she didn't remember searching for parents in general, not just not remembering searching specific ones. But as the exact words of the interviews weren't released I suppose we can't get complete clarity on this.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

It’s not that, she didn’t remember making these individual searches as in she didn’t remember searching specifically for these individual people not that she didn’t remember fb searching generally. The fact she spent mere seconds on each search supports that.

Child E & F died in 2015, she was still searching their parents on FB in 2016

Letby searched for the mum and dad of Child E and Child F on Facebook nine times in the following months, the vast majority for the mother. The first of the searches was on August 6 at 7.58pm, and one of the searches is at 11.26pm on December 25.
The final two searches were made in January 2016, the last on January 10 at 11.03pm.

I simply don't believe she doesn't remember, as she remembered the mothers name to search it multiple times over months.

 

[Sundial]

I take your point. It is unprofessional.

I wonder how many other nurses also do this though? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? None of whom are intentionally harming babies.

The vast majority of nurses don’t. I have only encountered one or two who have done something like this and those who have witnessed them doing so have reported it or advised them of their professional conduct. It is a serious can of worms that most nurses are aware of. But aside from the hundreds of searches she also then had all this astonishing amount of confidential information in her home.

Let us focus on this for a moment if you will; whether she is innocent (or not), this is the very reason why nurses are told and taught repeatedly about this. Because of messes like this.

Now, add that to all the other evidence we have heard thus far. I have to say, personally, it is not looking good at all regardless of guilt.
JMO

 

[Becky53]

Lucy Letby murder trial - latest: Alleged baby killer asked about 'I am evil' alleged confession - as court sketch shows her crying.​

Lucy Letby trial latest: Defendant now facing prosecution lawyer after tears in court

The cross-examination of the neonatal nurse, 33, enters its first full day today. Yesterday saw prosecutor Nick Johnson KC ask Letby why she only cries for herself and not the babies she is alleged to have killed. She denied this was the case.

news.sky.com

Well the journalists have come out of the woodwork today…
Sky live reporting also if no one has already said.

 

[Sundial]

I take your point. It is unprofessional.

I wonder how many other nurses also do this though? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? None of whom are intentionally harming babies.

You also forget; others are not on trial. She is.

 

[DianaWW]

It’s not that, she didn’t remember making these individual searches as in she didn’t remember searching specifically for these individual people not that she didn’t remember fb searching generally. The fact she spent mere seconds on each search supports that.

Is it a fact that she spent mere seconds on every search? I don't think it is? We know she made a lot of searches, but not how long she spent looking at each profile as far as i'm aware.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Would you not describe someone that has been subjected to wrongful arrest, as the victim of wrongful arrest? Just curious

Yes, but she's not been wrongfully arrested has she, as there is clearly authority to justify her arrest and detention, and subsequent trial.